Usefulness of bench chain grinder for serious stock removal?

[Tyler Keniston]

So hopefully this isn't too redundant. I know there are lots of threads out there about grinders for sharpening and types of wheels. But here's my situation:

I just got a new 'roughneck' bench grinder. The price was right for what it appeared to be. I just put it to the test. Quality wise, no major complaints (nothing I can't work with it seems anyways). That said, I was left questioning how much sense these grinders make in comparison with files. At least with the stock wheels.

I hand file often in the woods (and in the shop between cutting days). I bought the grinder for 2 purposes: to grind long lengths of milling chain, and to rehab rocked and out-of-whack chain. For both of these purposes, it would be of much help if the grinder could remove material faster (and without burning) than a file. I seriously don't think I had it grinding as fast as a file and seemed to be on the edge of burning. It seemed like if I took more off, the cutters would start to go straw color (first signs of losing temper if I am correct).

So I am curious, for those experienced with grinders, can a grinder really remove material fast and greatly speed up grinding when lots of material is to be removed (and without burning)? Or is the only real benefit the repeatable angles?
If the answer is "with the right wheel" should I be looking to get something like the CBN/ABN wheels. As you can tell by my 'roughneck' purchase, I am looking to keep this low budget, but I also want something that works for what I was intending, otherwise its money down the tube anyways.

At the least I suppose I'll walk away from this endeavor appreciating just how sweet a file can cut (quick and cool it seems now compared to those pink grinder wheels).

Thanks for any advice or heckling.
Tk

 

[fearofpavement]

Grinders can remove material way faster than a file. You may be overly conservative. Experiment around a bit to see what works for you...

 

[bikemike]

Your wheel might be plugged up with oil n dust. Even my cheep hf grinder can sharpen a bad chain faster than a file. But my oregon will rip **** up no prob. Once you get use to it youl fly through chains.

 

[Tyler Keniston]

Good to know! Thanks. I probably am being overly conservative. I also do sharpening work where burning steel on things like chisels and plane irons is of huge concern with powered grinders, so I'm very cautious when it comes to grinding on tool stool.

Does anyone else notice the straw color starting out and is it of concern? Or should I only worry about the blue/ brown looking type of burn colors?

 

[bikemike]

The oil and dust can turn color kwik. But that don't concern me.

 

[Timbco84]

There is a trick to it, especially if you have very much material to remove like on a rocked chain. Make quick "ticks" to the tooth with the wheel, what I mean by that is don't just shove the wheel to the tooth till it starts to turn color, touch, lift, touch, lift, touch, lift etc. It's not uncommon for me to touch a tooth 8 or 10 times before I have it ground back to where I need. If you feel like the teeth are getting hot on a real bad chain, go around the loop 2 or 3 times to break the heat up. Get your hands on a stone dresser for shaping your wheels if your grinder didn't come with one, it helps clean the metal and oil out of the stone and keep a proper round profile.

As far as wheels are concerned...I like to stick with a good quality stone wheel like from Oregon brand The metal wheels with the diamond edge cause me more grief than help. They seem to plug up and start grinding like crap way to soon for the price, and they are stupid noisy.

You can also use the grinder to lower/profile rakers (depth gauges) if your grinder allows the adjustment for it. I usually keep a separate grinding wheel for such a purpose, a nice wide one like 1/4" or 5/16. Then shape it mostly flat with a slight ramp down on the leading edge to keep the raker properly shaped.

 

[tomdcoker]

Your rock will load-up with metal after use and turn dark. If you keep the rock clean it will help, but there is a limit to how much you can remove without over heating the chain tooth. If you have some cast iron metal you can use that to dress the rock or there are several different types of dressers, Boron , diamond and others. Harbor Freight should have at least one type. Tom PS Some one is faster than I am.

 

[Philbert]

The cheap grinders come with cheap wheels.

There is still some skill that comes with experience. A few, general recommendations:

1. Replace the wheels with Molemab wheels from Bailey's, the Oregon wheels, or similar. No need to go to the CBN wheels. Maybe look at the resinoid wheels.
http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/resinoid-grinder-wheels.256733/

2. Take lots of little 'taps', as noted.

3. Dress the wheels frequently, like every loop, to keep exposing fresh abrasive.

4. Take some old or scrap chain and play with it. See what it takes to intentionally burn it. Then try grinding more without dressing the wheel. Then try to grind through the burn. Etc.

I am colorblind, so I cannot comment on the changes in color!

Good luck!

Philbert

 

[CR888]

Doubt your changing the temper of the steel, probably burning sap on cutters. If your filing is faster than a grinder can remove stock, something is wrong or you are one hell of a fast filer. Superfiler!!

 

[Justsaws]

Chisel and irons are usually around 60 hardness(+/-), the cutters on saw chain seem to be softer. As long as you can file the freshly ground chain with the same ease as one of your file only chains I would not worry about changing the temper of the metal. Depending on the brand of chain a severely over heated cutting will have the chrome plate peeled back from the cutter edge, even worse is a visible to the naked eye burr along the outside of the cutting edges.

Using a magnifying lense of some sort to look at the edges will answer a lot of questions about the quality of the grind. I carry a 10x loupe these days.

Zing, zing, zing or tap, tap, tap is solid advice. All the chains I use for milling are sharpened on a grinder, depth gauges are filed. Good luck with it, when set up and used correctly grinders can save a huge amount of time.

 

[7sleeper]

I completely agree with what Philbert and others have written about the tapping way of sharpening. The only comment I can add is

A chain grinder is NOT an angle grinder!!!

As long as you continue to work in this manner your result's will be disappointing!

What I further could recomend is doing more than one pass. So you only take off little amounts at a time.

7

 

[Tyler Keniston]

great responses, thanks.
I suspect maybe I was seeing the sap/oil/dust burn a bit rather than the metal itself. I'll keep experimenting. I may also try switching to a new Molemab or Oregon wheel see if that's any different. The 1/4" wheel it came with was pretty wongly anyways.

You can also use the grinder to lower/profile rakers (depth gauges) if your grinder allows the adjustment for it. I usually keep a separate grinding wheel for such a purpose, a nice wide one like 1/4" or 5/16. Then shape it mostly flat with a slight ramp down on the leading edge to keep the raker properly shaped.

Yeah one of the other big reasons I liked the idea of a grinder is because I hate taking down the rakers with a file. It seems like the rakers get work hardened a bit and the little flat files wear down real quick. Its my least favorite part of filing when that time comes.
It seems the key to using the grinder would be to get the proper wheel profile (concave). Just any ol dressing stone work for that?
Do you notice a studdering/skipping type sound when grinding the rakers that lean toward you (against the wheel spin)? Could have been my wheel being untrue in the round, but I didn't notice it on left hand (leaning away) rakers. With that sound it felt sketchy, like the wheel could break up.

 

[cre73]

I have never used my chain grinder on the rakers. I have a cheepo timber tuff model that I only use once in a while when I am bored.

 

[Philbert]

Yeah one of the other big reasons I liked the idea of a grinder is because I hate taking down the rakers with a file.

Took me a while to 'get it', especially with low kickback chains where you grind the 'bumper' at the same time.

http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/depth-gauges-on-a-grinder.200410/

http://www.arboristsite.com/communi...nding-and-drive-link-deburring-wheels.284866/

Philbert

 

[bikemike]

Hate those chains

 

[a. palmer jr.]

I used to hand file all the time but since I got used to the chain grinder I don't hand file anymore, so much easier and quicker to do the grinder.