Grinding chain loops and the difference between left and right hand cutters..

[Philbert]

With the chain properly mounted on the saw, and the user in operating position, the Left cutters are on the user’s left side, and the Right cutters are on the user’s right side.

Philbert

 

[pdqdl]

I only say because in the diagram above, "left" teeth would be sharpened by a hand file with the right hand.

I pretty much sharpen all the teeth with my right hand. Just sayin'

 

[huskihl]

Maybe a stupid question, but do we all agree what is a 'right' tooth and what is a 'left' tooth? Is this diagram from the internet correct?
View attachment 1111506

- I only say because in the diagram above, "left" teeth would be sharpened by a hand file with the right hand.
- On the bottom of the bar, the teeth move in the opposite direction and are even sometimes sharpened with the saw and bar held in a vice upside down.
- I think that the right tooth (as defined above) makes a downwards crosscutting action, cut to the right, so blunter right teeth than left makes a saw cut to the left. Is this correct?

A saw will cut to whichever direction has a combination of sharper teeth versus lower rakers. Left cutters are inherently shaped better because of most users being right handed. Right cutters typically end up being the ones that don’t get completely sharp or have oddball inconsistencies from either using the left hand to sharpen or from using the right hand and pushing the file away, rather than pulling the file into the tooth. That action tends to make shorter left-hand cutters and longer right hand cutters. So if the left cutters were really short, right cutters were really long, and rakers were all the same height, it’s possible that the saw would cut to the right even though the cutters were slightly less perfect, because it had comparatively lower rakers

 

[bwalker]

A saw will cut to whichever direction has a combination of sharper teeth versus lower rakers. Left cutters are inherently shaped better because of most users being right handed. Right cutters typically end up being the ones that don’t get completely sharp or have oddball inconsistencies from either using the left hand to sharpen or from using the right hand and pushing the file away, rather than pulling the file into the tooth. That action tends to make shorter left-hand cutters and longer right hand cutters. So if the left cutters were really short, right cutters were really long, and rakers were all the same height, it’s possible that the saw would cut to the right even though the cutters were slightly less perfect, because it had comparatively lower rakers

Spot on, Kevin.

 

[poleframer]

Interesting thread. I've always noticed that if my saw is cutting a curve its almost always to the right. And I've noticed filing, the right cutters "tend" to be longer on the right than the left, tho a worn bar can cause the issue as well.
I've often attributed it to being right handed and probably push somewhat harder on the cutter in that direction, so I often give the right cutter (pushing the file with my left hand) an extra stroke to keep them even.
I've wondered if the rotational force of the saw plays a factor too.
Good discussion.

 

[chipper1]

You guys aren't allowed to discuss chains cutting crooked in this thread, just saying .

 

[rogue60]

With any tool, and in every trade, there is variation. Being competent means knowing how to work with these.

When I did some land surveying I was trained how to use the old transits so that any errors due to slop would cancel each other out, rather than accumulate.

I’ve seen some cabinet makers who make parts fit, without using any graduated measuring tapes or rulers, even on uneven surfaces.

Saw chains are not as precise as aircraft parts. But it’s possible to get the cutters sharp, uniform, and accurate, with just a little knowledge, skill, and experience.

Philbert

C'mon Philbert ya playing with em... Tell them the importance of set and if they really want to master sharpening how important it is.

 

[MikeRock]

"Most chainsaw operators are left handed". Where did you get that statistic?? The general population is right handed with ~10% left handed.

 

[muddy42]

A saw will cut to whichever direction has a combination of sharper teeth versus lower rakers. Left cutters are inherently shaped better because of most users being right handed. Right cutters typically end up being the ones that don’t get completely sharp or have oddball inconsistencies from either using the left hand to sharpen or from using the right hand and pushing the file away, rather than pulling the file into the tooth. That action tends to make shorter left-hand cutters and longer right hand cutters. So if the left cutters were really short, right cutters were really long, and rakers were all the same height, it’s possible that the saw would cut to the right even though the cutters were slightly less perfect, because it had comparatively lower rakers

Agreed. I am very right handed and havn't ever found a way to cut the right teeth with the right hand. You just practice and force your left hand to do the job, pay attention to the teeth and rakers. A new file is always easier to get good results with and doesn't chatter as much. Putting the saw upside down in the vice can help get the engine out of the way.

 

[pdqdl]

Spot on, Kevin.

"Most chainsaw operators are left handed". Where did you get that statistic?? The general population is right handed with ~10% left handed.

That was a typo, edited correctly when I discovered it. Should have been "Most chainsaw operators are not left handed"

You seem to have been the only one that commented on that mistake, however.

 

[pdqdl]

I am very right handed and havn't ever found a way to cut the right teeth with the right hand.

Two ways to do that: turn the saw around and push into the right side cutters from the front of the saw with your right hand. Do be careful of slipping out and slicing up your hand.
Or... If the chatter of pushing into the cutting edge isn't working for you, turn the file around and pull it past the cutting edge. I do both methods, and rarely try to file left handed.

I have found that pushing into the cutter works better anyway, so sometimes I file left handed on the left side, pushing the file into the cutter. I know, that's a bit backwards, but sometimes your file is dull and the teeth of the chain have been hardened by some numbskull on the chain grinder. You do what you gotta do.

 

[muddy42]

Two ways to do that: turn the saw around and push into the right side cutters from the front of the saw with your right hand. Do be careful of slipping out and slicing up your hand.
Or... If the chatter of pushing into the cutting edge isn't working for you, turn the file around and pull it past the cutting edge. I do both methods, and rarely try to file left handed.

I have found that pushing into the cutter works better anyway, so sometimes I file left handed on the left side, pushing the file into the cutter. I know, that's a bit backwards, but sometimes your file is dull and the teeth of the chain have been hardened by some numbskull on the chain grinder. You do what you gotta do.

Thanks but I have tied both of these techniques and neither quite works for me. With the push techniques I find it hard to deliver the same pressure and consistency of angle and I don't like sharpening into the cutter because its too easy to nick the cutting edge. I'm better with the left hand, even though after 20 years of sharpening my body screams out that something is wrong.

 

[mudrat2]

RE centering the grinder vice. Clamp a piece of scrap metal the same thickness as your chain drive link. Grind RH then LH and the resulting edge should be centered.

From overhead it should look like this: >

If not move your fixed clamp plate in or out to get it centered.

 

[leaf]

I see MUCH more variation with hand filed chains.

Often, completely different angles, and very different lengths, due to people being stronger on one side or the other.

Philbert

Mr. Philbert, he say truth. Just my experience and personal opinion, but I have come to believe that the number of people who are genuinely good at hand-filing a chainsaw chain is about seven percent of the population taking a file in their hands. The other ninety-three percent come out with various forms of colly-wobble.

Those who have grinders, and use them regularly, seem to figure sharpening out, and I submit that the majority produce good work. Some very good -- better chains than when new. (Although, I admit, when I let a "friend" who does not usually use grinders borrow mine to do a few chains, less than half the time do the chains come out happy with what has happened to them.)

I also say Mr. Philbert has it very right when he advocates the "little bites" touch-touch-touch methods with the spinning wheel.

 

[bwalker]

Mr. Philbert, he say truth. Just my experience and personal opinion, but I have come to believe that the number of people who are genuinely good at hand-filing a chainsaw chain is about seven percent of the population taking a file in their hands. The other ninety-three percent come out with various forms of colly-wobble.

Those who have grinders, and use them regularly, seem to figure sharpening out, and I submit that the majority produce good work. Some very good -- better chains than when new. (Although, I admit, when I let a "friend" who does not usually use grinders borrow mine to do a few chains, less than half the time do the chains come out happy with what has happened to them.)

I also say Mr. Philbert has it very right when he advocates the "little bites" touch-touch-touch methods with the spinning wheel.

This is probably true. I woukd add that it's sort of a perishable skill too.

 

[huskihl]

number of people who are genuinely good at hand-filing a chainsaw chain is about seven percent of the population taking a file in their hands.

You missed a decimal

 

[James Sawyer]

hand filing or grinding as the chain wear down they should get better if the gullet is maintained, it should have better chip flow. Also, the chain runs better I think if the right and left cutters are even too. I grind a lot of my chains and when the vise swings I always check my cutter length and make sure there even between the right and left sides. My vise always needs a slight adjustment to maintain an even cutter length. I agree hand filing in the field you do what you need to do to get it sharp again and my cutter length changes some. I try to correct them on the grinder but sometimes I'll hit that short tooth with a file and let it go and try to catch it up on the next grind. I've heard it said it doesn't matter if the cutter length is different, but I think it does. I'm sure there are a lot of different opinion but that what I do. I know some people won't take the time to check all this and just slide their loops thru their grinders. Chains are getting expensive, and I just spend the time to save what I can when I grind. I agree my hand filing probable in 93%, I don't count all my strokes just file enough to where I think it sharp and move to the next, I don't have that kind of time in the field working. Home on the grinder for me different story.

 

[Wood Doctor]

James Sawyer wrote: "I've heard it said it doesn't matter if the cutter length is different, but I think it does. "
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Believe me, it does make a difference. Many professional sawyers (loggers especially) with big saws will sharpen their chains while in the field -- long bar over alternating shoulders and with the same arm. Therefore, cutters on one side of the chain always get more stock removed faster than the cutters on the other side.

Somehow loggers tolerate crooked cuts or figure out how to compensate. Regardless, many never lower the rakers. When they get to that stage and the cutters are throwing powder, they pitch the chain and mount a new one. It's almost as if they cannot wait for that new chain to be on board. Not sure I can blame them because cutting with an old dull chain wastes fuel, time, patience, horsepower, and muscle power. BTDT

 

[bwalker]

James Sawyer wrote: "I've heard it said it doesn't matter if the cutter length is different, but I think it does. "
------------------
Believe me, it does make a difference. Many professional sawyers (loggers especially) with big saws will sharpen their chains while in the field -- long bar over alternating shoulders and with the same arm. Therefore, cutters on one side of the chain always get more stock removed faster than the cutters on the other side.

Somehow loggers tolerate crooked cuts or figure out how to compensate. Regardless, many never lower the rakers. When they get to that stage and the cutters are throwing powder, they pitch the chain and mount a new one. It's almost as if they cannot wait for that new chain to be on board. Not sure I can blame them because cutting with an old dull chain wastes fuel, time, patience, horsepower, and muscle power. BTDT

I don't doubt that what you mention is sometimes the case, but I don't think it's common amongst fallers. For starters falling is not an especially lucrative occupation and wasting consumables adds up. It's also not very fun running a saw that cuts like crap all day.

 

[Philbert]

I have occasionally said that filing chains is a lot like sex: there is a lot of bad information out there, most stuff is learned in dark rooms or the woods, and a lot of guys assume that they are better than they actually are.

Philbert