Using a High Lift Jacks

[Lumberjack]

If you make a choker with a chain and make a loop for the jack to hook to, then couldn't you use the jack to fell trees with a slight lean or a weight problem in the top? I got the idea from Bailey's Catalog where it shows the guy using a hydraulic jack. Same idea, but over here the trees aint that big, so you would need the jack outside the tree. High Lifts are rated to 7000 pounds so if you left a good hinge then pushed up on one side with 7000# then I think that that would work in some situations. Like the tires I may not ever use it but it would be another trick.

Carl

 

[heartland]

Given the choice between a jack positioned at the bottom of the tree vs. pull lines positioned higher up in the tree: I'd choose pull lines.

More control = more predictability = more safe

 

[Lumberjack]

Yea, but on some it would be easier so push over from bottom like when you are cutting the pole after you cut the top the day before. Once again it has sever limitions, but on some it may be help in addition to pulling from the top like if you have to make it fall against a lean and across the pull. Use the pull to conteract lean and the jack to push it against the pull. Just a thought, saftey first ect.

 

[TREETX]

Originally posted by RockyJSquirrel

The overwhelming leverage afforded by a rope set high in the tree is so much easier and safer in my opinion. 200 lbs of force placed at the top of the lever accomplishes the same thing as 5000 lbs of force at the base of the lever and you have much more control.

Brian is on the money here. It has been a while since I slept through my physics classes, but if I remember correctly,
Torque = Force x Length of Moment Arm

You would be better placing a few hundred pound of force at the top instead of a few thousand at the bottom.

The technique you mentioned is good for pulling fence posts

 

[Lumberjack]

Yea I know the shorter the arm the more leverage you have. It was just an idea, I understand the physics of it but on say like on a job right now. I cut the top out of the pine yesterday. When I go back out there I could us the jack and a wedge without having to climb the tree, set the rope, pay someone else to come pull, and then cut. I could notch it and start the back cut until my bar is in the tree, put the chain around and set the jack. Cut on through leaving a large hidge, stop pull out the saw (get some water LOL) and then jack the handle. At a full 7000 pounds the jack only uses like 170 pounds of downforce to lift 7000 pounds. Not for everything, just anouther trick.

Carl

 

[TREETX]

Actually, the longer the arm, the more leverage.....

Why would you climb a tree to set a line???

Try a throw line.

If you cut off everything you could have set a line on, try making a better plan.

Why not drop the stick right after you came down

 

[Burnham]

Lumberjack -- Watch out for what may happen to that chain and jack combo as the tree goes over...wierd things may surprise us, like the chain staying on the jack, the jack getting leveraged by the tree falling, the jack flying through the air, the picture window (or worse) happening to be in the line of flight of of the cartwheeling Handyman. If you are into the jack scenario, and the tree has enough dimension, use a hydraulic bottle jack. Just cut a recess for it at the center of the backcut, place it after the backcut has progressed far enough for clearance, and you are in business.

None of the above should be interpreted as disagreement with the notion that best leverage is aquired by having line placement well up the tree. When I got into some fisheries habitat improvement work that required large conifers to be placed into stream channels, the biologists desired a natural look and natural anchoring that would be achieved by having the tree "fall" into the stream rather than having a log placed in the stream. By placement well up into even very large trees, using 1/2 " cable, 4" blocks, cable chokers, 2 or 3 to 1 m.a. and pulling with a 15,000 lb. winch on a spyder, we pulled over intact up to 50" dbh doug fir! Not as fine directional control as with a good felling cut, though .

 

[Stumper]

Yeah LJ, If you were up there topping it out then setting the line would have been cake. Even if you ae no good with a throw line just a little way up lets you match a hi -iftjack in force at the hinge. (a pole saw with several sections is great for setting lines up to about 30-35 feet). Loggers jack trees in order to place them where they want but their concern is timber recovery-if they foul up and it doesn't go right it can cost them money but doesn't involve destruction of someone elses property/house. Jacking trees is "old" advanced technique. If much of that type of timber felling were still going on I suspect the word would be a buzzin' about the Bigshot and Z-rigs amongst the fallers.

 

[timberfell]

I know when you are loking foreward to coming down and taking a break it can be easy to forget to set a pull line, but it is essential to your productivity. Even if you had to do you felling cut the next day, maybe you could have just left a throwline in the tree overnight. Then you could just pull a bull line up in the morning. You'd be out 20$ instead of 200$ if someone got sticky fingers.

 

[Tom Dunlap]

The High LIft Jack is a wonderful tool. Mine is almost thirty years old and has gotten me out of many jams. There is no way that I would ever consider using it to tip trees. Too likely to loose its grip or footing with disastorous results.

Consider learning proper face cuts and use a lifting/pry bar. Setting a throwline will give you much more pull and is safer. You don't need to set it too high in the tree in order to get good leverage.

The next itteration of this topic is to consider using bottle jacks instead of Silveys to tip trees. Again, not a good idea. Silveys are expensive because they have been built to put up with the loads and movement that felling trees will generate. Last summer I talked with Jerry Beranek about Silveys. He said that they have a much higher safety factor than bottle jacks.

Tom

 

[geofore]

bottle jacks

The jacks, your 7,000# or bottle jack are way to lite weight to be safe. The tree jacks you can't afford to by are rated at 50 -150 tons, they are very much like porta power only built to take ruff tree service. They are not cheap. You are talking about using a 3 1/2 ton jack when you should have a 50 ton jack. Set the rope high in the tree and forget the jacks until you can afford the right ones. If your chain and jack kick loose how far will the jack fly with 7,000# load on it? 50-100 feet? Will it kill someone if they get hit with it? It can! Set the rope high in the tree and hire someone to pull, it is safer and works better and cheaper. It is all about safety. If ever you buy the tree jacks have someone who knows how to use them show you how to use them, till then use the ropes. Next time leave a throw line in the tree to pull your rope up the next day. Plan ahead, think of what happens next before it happens and rememmber Murph's Law.

 

[Lumberjack]

Ok yall disagree. Thank you for your input. When I said put the chain around the tree I was thinking about a chain with a binder around the tree real tight with a loop going up to the foot of the jack. To lessen the chance of it slipping off you could slip a bolt through the foot and the looped chain. One thing yall didn't mention is if the hindge breaks then the tree would pivot on the jack and fall 180 degrees the wrong way. Always remember Murphy's Law around here it seems as inevidable as death and taxes.


Thanks
Carl

 

[NeTree]

Originally posted by Lumberjack
if the hindge breaks then the tree would pivot on the jack and fall 180 degrees the wrong way

You just won a silver star.

Now you know why we all disagree with you.

 

[murphy4trees]

I know some west coast fellers have experience with jacking trees, but no one around here ... I thought they were used in heavilly wooded areas where setting lines could be difficult... I was thinking of trying jacking to fell an oak into the woods last year... Looked into it a little and decided that since the jack I had was way too small and I had 0 experience that there was a good chance that the jack would fail or slip.... so i climbed it, cut a few limbs, set two ropes and pulled it into the woods... Got that one on video... Better safe than sorry...
You may consider dragging brush and raking sticks as a possible road to enlightenment....Too much thinking is bad for your brain!