using bucket as crane

[phillybo1]

Hey Ya'll, When I work in the bucket , I sometimes have a rope attached to the bucket to tie to a limb over a target when I cut it. I don't shock load the rope and don't do this with a limb over 25 pounds or so. I just lower the bucket and limb to the ground crew. Does anyone else use this procedure? Any comments, safety concerns? Thanks in advance.

 

[clearance]

Hey Ya'll, When I work in the bucket , I sometimes have a rope attached to the bucket to tie to a limb over a target when I cut it. I don't shock load the rope and don't do this with a limb over 25 pounds or so. I just lower the bucket and limb to the ground crew. Does anyone else use this procedure? Any comments, safety concerns? Thanks in advance.

25lbs..........right.

 

[l2edneck]

I used to doit when i had to,but after seein so many fail i would never again.Now there are some buckets that are used to set poles and hang transformers,so basically they are cranes.Iwould think maybe then its ok.Still i wouldnt trust it.But i guess its your call.


and yea if it was 25 lbs you could just hold it so thats a crock.Hahaha:hmm3grin2orange:

 

[phillybo1]

This is a serious question as I just started using this procedure. Have questions about possible truck damage/ safety issues.

 

[l2edneck]

Well if its rated at 300lbs and you weigh 205.then if you load it with more than 95lbs then theres a very good chance it will just snap.I am bein serious.I have seen many booms destroyed by idiots.I have also used it as a tag line,I.E limb over a pool cage,rope thru crotch on another or same tree.cut limb to lower the attach a second "tag" line and work to gether to pull it away from the screen.Again,not what it was designed for therefore not safe.

Any added stress to a boom negates the rating altogether.

 

[antigrassguy]

phillybo, what make, model and how old is the bucket are you using? I personally would not use this method as it sounds unsafe and VERY time consuming. But than again thats me.

 

[phillybo1]

I guess I should explain my whole dilemma. I work for a municipality. They promoted a guy from another department to be our foreman. He has zero experience with trees. Go figure! He has written me up for one handed operation of a chain saw in a bucket. There are sometimes limbs that we can't rope down from a crotch or a pulley so we have been using the bucket to lower limbs while using 2 hands on saw. Now he is having a problem with that. What to do? No I can' afford to quit!

 

[OTG BOSTON]

I guess I should explain my whole dilemma. I work for a municipality. They promoted a guy from another department to be our foreman. He has zero experience with trees. Go figure! He has written me up for one handed operation of a chain saw in a bucket. There are sometimes limbs that we can't rope down from a crotch or a pulley so we have been using the bucket to lower limbs while using 2 hands on saw. Now he is having a problem with that. What to do? No I can' afford to quit!

Get a few slings or false crotches. Learn how to "butt hang" a piece. Where does it say you can't one hand a saw? I work in a muni. we work over cars all of the time, which requires to cut and hold everything. Are you union? is your a$$hole boss union?

 

[phillybo1]

We do have slings that we do butt hangs from. It would take forever to use all the time. We may have to go to this to cover my ass. Yes I am union. No, he is not.

 

[pigwot]

Buddy of mine bought a "Line Truck", and the heavy boom has adapter plates for twin buckets (only time the second bucket gets bolted on is for putting up Christmas lights) and between them there is a small boom that you can pull out and it is rated for something like 1/2 a ton, with a rope winch built right into it. Guess it was for setting poles or something, but it comes in real handy for general tree work. Definitely no shock-loading.

 

[OTG BOSTON]

We do have slings that we do butt hangs from. It would take forever to use all the time. We may have to go to this to cover my ass. Yes I am union. No, he is not.

I know it would take a long time, that's kinda the point

Get your rep on the phone...........it's grievence time! The guys who work for me are also union, but a different one. Luckily I'm the best operator, climber, arborist, out of all of 'em. My philosophy is: a boss or leader should do so from the front and NEVER ask his subordinates to do anything he can't do himself, IMHO. PM me if you have more specific questions on how to deal with this guy.

 

[diltree]

The using a bucket as a crane idea.....very bad!!! a bucket is not meant for hoisting, you need to stop that right away, and possibly explore OTGs advice on union grievance. If they will not let you redirect with your hand while you cut, they have no idea what it entails to take down a tree, and you should have no problem winning your grievance.


www.dillontree.com

 

[John464]

You shouldnt have to lower limbs with the bucket. That is being lazy and or not experienced enough in rigging. There is usually always a crotch that can allow you to safely lower limbs and if there isnt that is where a sling, block, pullies, rope, etc. come in play. This does not "take forever" in fact it can make the job go quicker since you can take bigger pieces and direct them precisely where they need to be lowered. If it does take a few more minutes to rig correctly, so what! You are getting paid for your time aren't you?

However, if you are operating a bucket that is equipped with a material handler you can use the bucket as a 'crane'. I do not recommend this, but it can be done safely if you know what you are doing. I know a guy who uses his material handler to pick some big tops up and usually his rear mount forestry boom (or his climber) to make the cut below. Does a good job with it and is able to handle very large pieces and plop them right to the chipper.

If you work for the municipality they should do the following

-instruct and send their employees who work in trees to get certfied or atleast to attend classes in rigging/safety

-spend some money on the proper equipment to make your job safe

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

It sounds like your new boss is trying to go by the book. There's nothing wrong with that. It sounds like you're about to learn how to properly trim a tree.
One handing a saw and hanging loads off the bucket are dangerous.
I'm sure if he is going by the book, he's having lots of tailgate safety talks. This is the time to ask about alternative methods to how you're doing them now.
If you are in a bucket, working on a tree, there must be a rigging point somewhere on the tree. Set it high enough so it works for every branch you need to cut in an area, or even the whole tree or trees. Use a quick release sling, or even better slings, so it only takes seconds to attach.
You're thinking it takes longer to do it this new way, but the company sees lower insurance claims and therefore lower rates. The minute or two you think you are saving, is a drop in the bucket compared to one claim for CTS, shoulder replacement, tennis elbow, or back injury. That's not even getting into serious saw cuts or fatalities.

 

[JimL]

When you can't one hand it use a damn hand saw i.e. a Zubat....

 

[Tree Machine]

I visited Skwerl in Orlando last Winter. I was climbing something small for him, and watching as he assisted his ground guys in moving a big block of wood up onto a trailer using his bucket. I'd never used a bucket before, so I didn't know if this was normal or not.

He shared with me that his bucket truck was purchased from a municipality. The jib itself had a winch attached to it, alongside the actual bucket. Rocky let me know that they don't sell these to the arborist community for fear of what we'll do to them. In the municipality, the biggest thing they might lift is a pole. In tree work, the biggest thing we might lift is..... well, at this point you can see why they don't market these trucks to us.

I would listen to the guys here who say DO NOT rig off your bucket. It's not built for that.


I would also listen to the guys who say you should get comfortable using slings. If you think they would slow things down, you clearly don't understand the use of slings. I rig and lower everything from up in the tree, climbing, so for you to do the same thing from a bucket should technically be easier. Usually I rig without a sling, or slings, but in the hairy spots, slings make that sort of work possible.

I recommend having a non-locking stainless steel slideline biner on each of your web slings and nothing on your rated endless sling(s), to which you attach your 50 Kn steel biners and blocks, as needed, for the heftier rigging exercises. Heed Mike's advice for selecting a single point from which to lower and do the general area there before resetting your placement.

You can tie your own slings, or buy them pre-sewn. Tubular webbing is cheap. The slideline biners are 12 or 15 bucks. Have a minimum of two on you. For really active rigging, I like six. Try out various lengths to determine what you like. They don't take up much space. They really amp up your versatility and can make the job much safer, and believe us, faster. You'll warm up to them pretty quickly. Get spliced eyes in both ends of your rigging line to get out of the rut of the tie and untie and tie and untie and tie.... and of using just the one single end of the rigging rope all the time. These little nuances can make a big difference in the efficiency of your rigging.

 

[elmnut]

Material handlers are for lifting and lowering items from a pole to the ground, or ground to pole. Not lowering limbs or tops. The knuckle of an aerial lift is not designed for these applications. Run a series of girth hitches up the limb, cut in the middle of the girt hitches until your lowering point takes the whole bunch. Quick, safe, easy, union approved. Clove hitches work also, but can be hard to untie.

 

[Dadatwins]

Might as well repeat what everyone else has said, buckets are not to be used for rigging, they are to be used as a lift. Saw a recent demo where a 25lb log was dropped a few feet and the force was over 300 lbs at the tie in point. The boom is just not made to do that. Even a boom with a jib lift is designed to lift and lower only, not to be shock loaded. Sounds like your supervisor needs to get out the checkbook and start buying some updated tools and equipment. Rigging slings and blocks, hand saws are all great tools. I also work for a municipality and the bureaucracy can be insane, but the best way to win the 'by the book' battle is to force the municipality to work 'by the book also'. Instead of saying the job 'can't be done the way you want it' get educated about the rules and safe practices and force them to buy the equipment you need to do the job the right way. Then everyone wins. Good luck.

 

[jmack]

This is a serious question as I just started using this procedure. Have questions about possible truck damage/ safety issues.

heres a serious answer, dont use a bucket as a crane, dont one hand cuts with power saw, we will give you safe solutions, and why are you rushing around, stand down untill you get the right tools and training for your people, so you hit cars in the learning process, you work for a muni, hey maybe the police will give you no parking signs with there police order on it. everyone here is telling you no because alot of guys were trying to be cute with the bucket and the bucket had some kind of failure resulting in injury or death to the bucket operator keep asking the whys and you will get the hows.

 

[coydog]

I work for a municipality, seattle dept of transportation, it's against our standard operating procedure to one hand a chainsaw or use the lift as a crane, I'm the lead climber and I agree with this, in fact I helped write and edit them. We are extremely understaffed and constantly slammed with work in tricky situations, believe me there is always a way to rig it down efficiently, this just takes experience. I can't say that everybody follows all safety protocols all of the time, It's also understood that sometimes during emergency storm work the experienced worker may need to adjust some techniques in order to do whatever is safest for the situation, this is also in the SOP. I would not include using the bucket as a rigging point though. The only thing I do habitually is control a branch or piece of wood by holding it or placing it across the top of the bucket momentarily before I throw it down. In which case the bucket holds the extra weight but there is no shock loading. rigging off the bucket will just develop bad habits. As far as one handing, set up snap cuts so you can put your saw away and break it free, or finish your cut with a handsaw, It's easy to say it will take too long but that's only because it's a new and awkward procedure, practice makes perfect. I would not grieve to my union because my employer wants to be ansi and osha compliant, I would grieve to my union if my employer wanted me to not be ansi or osha compliant. Your'e union, you get paid by the hour, if it takes longer to be compliant, who cares?