Video: Wrecking Some White Oak

[brushbandit]

You should have your left thumb wrapped around the back of the wrap around handle. It's very importannt in controlling the saw from coming at you in the event of a violant kickback. In most of the vid you have your thumb running parallel to and along the handle. Small detail but important.

 

[Nailsbeats]

i like to make them deeper than that. i usually go about half way or maybe a tad less. the deeper you go, the more weight you have in your favor.

To a point. If the tree is weighted back you'll never get the weight in your favor. That's when I do a shallower notch, giving the wedges more leverage, and use them to drive it over center.

I use a deep notch when tipping logs off a straight spar or dropping a big spar. Key word is "straight".

 

[asthesun]

To a point. If the tree is weighted back you'll never get the weight in your favor. That's when I do a shallower notch, giving the wedges more leverage, and use them to drive it over center.

I use a deep notch when tipping logs off a straight spar or dropping a big spar. Key word is "straight".

this is true, but also only to a point. if its leaning too far back, wedges wont get it to come over as they will only open the cut the width of the wedge, which may not be enough to get the weight past the hinge point. like i said before, i dont use wedges excepy for stump cuts, even then very rarely. i'd rather throw-ball said tree and pull it in the right direction

 

[Nailsbeats]

You should have your left thumb wrapped around the back of the wrap around handle. It's very importannt in controlling the saw from coming at you in the event of a violant kickback. In most of the vid you have your thumb running parallel to and along the handle. Small detail but important.[/QUOTE

Where did you learn this? Some program?

I would like to know because I see benefit in running parallel, the stability gained by having more surface area of your hand along the handle. Possibly like many techniques, not one size fits all?

 

[Nailsbeats]

this is true, but also only to a point. if its leaning too far back, wedges wont get it to come over as they will only open the cut the width of the wedge, which may not be enough to get the weight past the hinge point. like i said before, i dont use wedges excepy for stump cuts, even then very rarely. i'd rather throw-ball said tree and pull it in the right direction

You can stack wedges to the sky, if you can get the hinge to hold. If it's too sketchy, yup, put a rope in it.

 

[tree MDS]

You should have your left thumb wrapped around the back of the wrap around handle. It's very importannt in controlling the saw from coming at you in the event of a violant kickback. In most of the vid you have your thumb running parallel to and along the handle. Small detail but important.

The devil is in the details.

You make a good point here. I had a boss that taught me that, I used to get all pi$$ed of when I'd be cutting away and get a tap on the shoulder to remind me to "wrap your thumb around the handle". But I commited it to habit and now its usually one of the first things I tell a new guy when he picks up a saw and starts cutting.

I've had some hearty jolts from big saws here and there over the years, I can remember thanking that former employer in my mind (he was one of the good ones).

 

[brushbandit]

You should have your left thumb wrapped around the back of the wrap around handle. It's very importannt in controlling the saw from coming at you in the event of a violant kickback. In most of the vid you have your thumb running parallel to and along the handle. Small detail but important.[/QUOTE

Where did you learn this? Some program?

I would like to know because I see benefit in running parallel, the stability gained by having more surface area of your hand along the handle. Possibly like many techniques, not one size fits all?

Some Program??????? It's one of the first thing I learned 25 years ago when i started climbing for Davey tree. It's one of the first things I teach a new hire that comes to work for me today. I don't know if you have ever experienced a violent kick back, I have just a few times in my career. You will not be able to control the saw during a violent kickback using that monkey grip. Also if your hand slips off the wrap around, which it will will that grip, your arm won't set the chain brake.

 

[asthesun]

Some Program??????? It's one of the first thing I learned 25 years ago when i started climbing for Davey tree. It's one of the first things I teach a new hire that comes to work for me today. I don't know if you have ever experienced a violent kick back, I have just a few times in my career. You will not be able to control the saw during a violent kickback using that monkey grip. Also if your hand slips off the wrap around, which it will will that grip, your arm won't set the chain brake.

its good to keep a firm grip on the wraparound handle so that if it kicks back, your wrist will trip the chainbrake. with all the stihl saws that i've used, pulling on the chain too hard sets the chainbrake, which is whats supposed to happen during a kickback. ever had the chain pinch, try to yank your saw out and heard the 'click' of the chainbrake engaging? i think its just as important to keep yourself out of the plane of the bar, so that if it were to kickback, maybe you'll only cut your shoulder, not your head/face. another thing, try not to stand over the saw, like when bucking wood on the ground. if you're getting lazy you might think its a good idea to just bend over with your hands on the saw. a better idea is to squat down with the saw in front of you. i havent experienced uncontrollable kickback with properly filed chains, but i have a few times when i filed the drags too much.

 

[tree MDS]

its good to keep a firm grip on the wraparound handle so that if it kicks back, your wrist will trip the chainbrake. with all the stihl saws that i've used, pulling on the chain too hard sets the chainbrake, which is whats supposed to happen during a kickback. ever had the chain pinch, try to yank your saw out and heard the 'click' of the chainbrake engaging? i think its just as important to keep yourself out of the plane of the bar, so that if it were to kickback, maybe you'll only cut your shoulder, not your head/face. another thing, try not to stand over the saw, like when bucking wood on the ground. if you're getting lazy you might think its a good idea to just bend over with your hands on the saw. a better idea is to squat down with the saw in front of you. i havent experienced uncontrollable kickback with properly filed chains, but i have a few times when i filed the drags too much.

Ahh... I think your hand is supposed to stay on the top handle holding the saw and the chain brake works on its own in the event of violent kickback without any wrist or arm help required.

 

[TreeClimber57]

You should have your left thumb wrapped around the back of the wrap around handle. It's very importannt in controlling the saw from coming at you in the event of a violant kickback. In most of the vid you have your thumb running parallel to and along the handle. Small detail but important.[/QUOTE

Where did you learn this? Some program?

I would like to know because I see benefit in running parallel, the stability gained by having more surface area of your hand along the handle. Possibly like many techniques, not one size fits all?

All the time I was working for the Provincial Government (which was most of my career), doing forestry work, this was part of the training. It was in their manuals, and also in another reference book -- one I still use for my guys.

Now normally I would not do this, but you asked for references so here goes.

Look in "Professional Timer Falling - A Procedural Approach" by: D. Douglas Dent - Chapter 2 - The Chainsaw -- I quote "Although both hands are involved in holding he saw, the major responsibility rests on the left hand to avoid loss of control. Generally, the most common mistake here is not wrapping the thumb around the handle bar. (Refer to Illustration 6). The correct placement of the hand is with the four finders hooked over the handle bar with the tips pointing back toward the operator. The thumb should be placed under the handle bar with the thumb pointing away from the operator. " ... it goes on further but is enough.

As I no longer use the government training material (other than a section or two I kept, I use this book and "The Tree Climbers Companion" for my guys as basic reference.

 

[tree md]

Nice job Nails.

For what it's worth, I was taught to never notch deeper than 1/3 diameter of the tree. That rule has served me well.

Excellent limbing! I wish I had a groundie who could limb like that!

 

[Nailsbeats]

Ahh... I think your hand is supposed to stay on the top handle holding the saw and the chain brake works on its own in the event of violent kickback without any wrist or arm help required.

That's right MDS, the chain brake will set on it's own.

 

[Nailsbeats]

Nice job Nails.

For what it's worth, I was taught to never notch deeper than 1/3 diameter of the tree. That rule has served me well.

Excellent limbing! I wish I had a groundie who could limb like that!

You bet MD, every tree is different and you'll never get everybody to agree anyway so what the heck...do what works.

 

[Nailsbeats]

Some Program??????? It's one of the first thing I learned 25 years ago when i started climbing for Davey tree. It's one of the first things I teach a new hire that comes to work for me today. I don't know if you have ever experienced a violent kick back, I have just a few times in my career. You will not be able to control the saw during a violent kickback using that monkey grip. Also if your hand slips off the wrap around, which it will will that grip, your arm won't set the chain brake.

Sounds like the Davey program......whatever works man.

 

[brushbandit]

Sounds like the Davey program......whatever works man.

Thought I would just pass along an accepted and widely taught safety tip on running a chainsaw. But it seems you have it all figured out....... Whatever works.

 

[MGlazier28]

I'm a new guy here, but i had to post on the thumb wrapping around the handle comment. i just graduated from the SUNY ESF Ranger School of forestry, part of the curriculum included chainsaw training and a logging exercise. Dan Tilton himself came to give a presentation to our class on chainsaw safety, and he made a huge deal about wrapping your thumb around the handle of the chainsaw, to provide a better grip and control in the event of a kickback. That's what we were taught. Also, on most newer chainsaws, your arm does not have to physically engage the chainbrake in a kickback event, as they have inertia-driven chainbrakes, meaning the force of the kickback sets the chainbrake. just my $.02

 

[Tree Pig]

this is true, but also only to a point. if its leaning too far back, wedges wont get it to come over as they will only open the cut the width of the wedge, which may not be enough to get the weight past the hinge point. like i said before, i dont use wedges excepy for stump cuts, even then very rarely. i'd rather throw-ball said tree and pull it in the right direction

1" of lift at the wedge on a 70' tree 18"DBH will correct 3 feet of lean, thats pretty significant if you ask me