Vista prunning

[John Paul Sanborn]

We've had a fe discussions on arboriculture and integrity.

Where do y'all stand on situations where you have to cut through wild areas to provide veiws and the decisions become drop or top (read reduce drasticly) on many smaller trees when woking downgrade from the point of veiw. Sometimes your working 40 ft up and the last 10 ft of the tree are what is in the way, reduction to just below the line of view would caus sprouting that would occlude the window in a matter of a few years.

I do many jobs like this on bluffs, lake Michigan and elsewhere, where I need to make some ugly reductions on trees so that I'm not removing roots that are holding the slope/bank together.

most "drops" are left 2 feet high so that they will have a better chance to sucker up.

Is there anyone here that would walk away from work like this that often takes several days and become long term clients to maintane the windows of view?

 

[NickfromWI]

Originally posted by RockyJSquirrel
Who owns the property where the trees are?

Practically everyone who owns a house on a lake! JPS, I've done work like that around here for Phil and the boys over at Best Quality. My view on it is that in your hands, the trees can become PART of the view and maybe still a valuable part of the property . If you walk from work like that, they might hire someone else who truly WILL butcher those trees, or remove them all the way and flush the stumps. The clients property is safer in your hands.

love
nick

 

[ramanujan]

its pretty difficult to dissuade a client from removing/topping trees when they're blocking a million dollar view, and indeed, if the property were mine I would want the trees out as well.

The few times that I have done jobs like this i have always made a point of leaving the stumps high enough so as to ensure regrowth but give the clients at least several years before they must have the trees redone. And explain to the client the reasons for not flush-cutting the stumps (ie erosion, natural biodiversity) and let them know what sort of a timeline you would expect for the trees to be repruned.

 

[GFB]

John,

Adam and I were up against a similar situation this weekend. The customer has two large black walnuts in their backyard. Most of the work was deadwooding some very large branches, but their neighbor had a severe crown raising done last month, and they thought they wanted the same to one and a removal on the other.

This is on one of our bluffs, and the back of the house is a basement walkout, then drops sharply another 25 feet before you get to the trees and a gradual slope down to the next street. ( My toes are always sore after working on the steep slopes all day!)

We talked them out of removing the one, but still had to remove a few (5) lower branches so that they could see off the back deck (upper level). These are very tall trees, and they finally agreed that the eastern shade these trees provided was worth keeping them.

The largest branch we cut was 4", and the trees look OK, not like line clearance, but still not like mother nature intended either. The neighbor had three cuts that were 15", and that tree looks very odd, but now they have a great view of the river.

We are finding it difficult not to bend a bit when the customer is on their deck saying, "can you cut that one too?" We ended up doing much less than most of the competition would have done, but still, I know that we did not adhere to strict pruning methods, and that bothers me.

The only thing that helps is knowing that the cuts themselves looked good compared to a jobsite that we drove by on the way home that had dozens of 15" stubs. The tree looked like a jungle gym!! We had driven by earlier and the guy was working from a lift, so maybe that's the best he could do!! It would now be a very easy tree to free climb!!

Thanks,

Gary

 

[treeman82]

I had a couple of interesting situations last year in regards to vista pruning. I had done work for one person in the fall who, with about a day's worth of work would have had a GREAT view into and across this valley, looking out at a body of water. I told them that it wouldn't be a lot of work at all to do the required pruning to give them a spectacular view. They weren't interested. I did work last winter for a couple over by the hudson river. They would have had a GREAT view of the Hudson River with only some minor crown reduction pruning on a couple of locusts. They also were not interested. They wanted to keep the trees as is.

 

[TREETX]

In the hills of west Austin, this is an all too common problem.

If they are nasty Hackberries (Celtis laevigata, NOT occidentalis), I will top them in a heart beat anything that will lead to the tree's demize. I push for removal normally. I have even topped/hedged back some small escarpment live oaks. I have never harmed any trees that actually have integrity as a tree or a species.

I have had some relationships strained by doing this. I recently did a large job for the CEO of Whole Foods Inc. Bongo bucks type people. House in the hill country. They want 100% of the view from their porch. They couldn't compromise for 80-85%. This involved topping a very old live oak that shaded the tennis courts below. My directive was make the view without losing the shade. I explained this wasn't going to work. I did minimal reduction just by normal drop crotching. They called back a few weeks later after the spring growth flush was encroaching on their view. I pitched clipping it back and cambistat. I got the attitude that I didn't do it right in the 1st place. Strained!!

I understand some vista pruning, around an edge, a select view through, but a topping type situation never seems to work.

 

[TREETX]

Originally posted by RockyJSquirrel
This is one of the main reasons I do not interact with homeowners any more. Most are too stupid to appreciate the trees they have.

That has to be one of the toughest parts of my job - people. Trees are challenging yet possible - people, they can be impossible.

 

[NickfromWI]

Originally posted by RockyJSquirrel
Most are too stupid to appreciate the trees they have.

Is it that they are stupid, or is it that they are ignorant?

love
nick

 

[TREETX]

They Are Stupid!!

Ignorant is different. Ignorant people can be educated about their trees and understand their value.

Stupid people are completely different.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

It's that some ot them igore the advice they ask for because it is not what they want to hear.


Brian, I guess you don't see much of that type of work were the hills are 10 ft above sea level
Often times when we come in these properties are either old and not kept up, or new built on broken up older parcels, so the veiw to the water is non existant.

You then have to gow through beucoup layers of trees to get tot the last one, and one branch can oclude the view.

Many of thse slopes are 60 dregrees or more, so with the middle gorund layers being 40 ft whips, it is difficult to find a crotch to tie into much less drop crotch to.

spruce and pine make it easy, spiral thin and tip reduce what you can, the rest drop to a whorl 10 feet below the lip of the slope. Same with the cedar types.

Many of the ash and basswood (they coppice well, so I'm not too concerned there) we have no choice but to tip them over, dice them up and use the logs for erosion control. That is placing them perpendicular to the slope and cutting the brush upso that it can be packed doen into 2 ft piles.

I've come in on jobs where hacks have gone through and just dropped stuff all over and you have several years of tangled brush to move through.

Oh and for those who have not done this before, taking a climbing line anchored to a tree on top as a scaling line makes it muchg easier to go up and down all day long. Tip a few and check the veiw, do it all over again then climb a few, go back up...

 

[ok2climb]

vista pruning

By definition a VP is removing or reducing limbs to allow a view from a predetermined point, if this can be accomplished cutting back to sufficent laterals that will sustain the tree, no problem. Having to reduce trees drastically in order to obtain that view does serious damage to the entire system and can lead to further decline. I myself would opt for complete removal or not do the work at all. I have refused to do and have come out of trees that were sold as topping jobs by salesmen at my present place of employment. We are responsible for the maintenance and care of a wonderful natural resource, TREES. To keep that going we must strive to do the best that we can for the benefit of the trees that we have today, so future generations can enjoy them for years to come.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

My feelings exactly, Which is why so many are coppiced to 2 feet, but then you run into errosion control problems iff too m any are done that way, with reduction of root systems. So many of the reductions are rather loosely termend in these low hazard-target areas.

I have allso been promoting pllardy with coppice on many of these sites, since the prunning cycles are rather frequest to maintain the holes and cuts in the canopy.

Like Nick said, I'll do the lesser hack job, so walking away from thes jobs would do the local tree comunity a greater diservice.

My problem with the A300 Vista definnition is that it is worded for one tree, it does not work with a stand on a slope.

PBS did a TOH rerun where they did a VP that was basicly raise every tree on the shore 20 ft

 

[xander9727]

I try to balance the wants of the customer with what is best for the trees and the landscape. Quite often I'll do what I feel is best based on what the customer wants and then get more input from the customer. I have found that many people have an one idea before pruning begins and it changes as limbs are removed. More often than not they realize that "topping, hacking, etc." the trees, while opening up the view creates an unsightly landscape. As I remove enough of the canopy to allow a view that is mostly open they change their mind about what they want. This does quite often require me to spend more time on the job but it usually results in a long term customer. Additionally it promotes long term tree health. However, there are always those who care about nothing but themselves. Usually you can pick these people out when your bidding the job.

 

[monkeypuzzle]

You are right on JohnPaul, not much VP going on down here in the flat lands. We just raise the canopy a bit.

I do lots of T.V. dish (vistas) you could say. Fun climbs, mostly picky stuff. Seems it would be cheaper to move the dish but I'm not talking.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

I've done a couple of those, I call it LOS (line of site) antenna pruning.

Sometimes it is climbing up to use the Felcos on just a few twigs.