VT Hitch Question

[brianks2]

I have been using the Blakes DdRT for awhile and have been toying with the idea of trying the VT. Before I go shell out the cash for a micro pulley I want to try it first though.

Tell me if this sounds safe.

1) VT tied with 8mm rated cord tied with double-fishermans to the biner.

2) Instead of the micropulley, I used a rated small aluminum ring where the pulley would go and threaded the climbing rope through it and attached to the biner. (Threading rope was the only annoyance in setting it up)

It looks good and works "low and slow". The ring tends the VT with little to no trouble. I can't post a picture of it just yet (digital camera at home). The aluminum ring is the only non-standard part of the VT hitch climber. Everything else is set up normally.

All opinions welcome, good and bad.

 

[Bermie]

Dish out for a hitchclimber...WELL worth it, accept no substitute!

In the meantime I'm sure your present system will do for now...

 

[Job Corps Tree]

With a Double fisherman's Knot on Both ends of the cord,the ring is usable Pulley is far better, Early on with this setup we used the Key Chain Biners it don't hold any load it just tends the rope. I like the Double Fishermans knot better than a Splice because it will fit clost to the Carabiner with out the double rope( rope inside of rope) as part of the splice

 

[asnyder]

I am not sure thats what he i asking

 

[pdqdl]

The VT is just another prussic-style friction hitch. All these knots have different performance traits, but you are not stuck with 8mm line, nor do you need a tending pulley for it to hold or release. If you wish to pulling on the tail to take up the slack, you will definitely need some mechanical device to hold the loops of the knot while the rope slips through.

Experiment safely before you go too far out on a limb.

 

[tree MDS]

With a Double fisherman's Knot on Both ends of the cord,the ring is usable Pulley is far better, Early on with this setup we used the Key Chain Biners it don't hold any load it just tends the rope. I like the Double Fishermans knot better than a Splice because it will fit clost to the Carabiner with out the double rope( rope inside of rope) as part of the splice

I think you mean a scaffold knot instead of double fishermans knot, no??

Or would that be a (single?) fishermans??

Double fishermans is what you use to tie two ends of a loop together - like for a footlock cord..a scaffold knot is pretty much half a fishermans knot. at least I thought.

Just trying to clarify this point, as I've run into this here before.

 

[pdqdl]

I think it is most properly called a double overhand noose. Drawings I have seen of the scaffold hitch look like the Double Overhand Knot making a slip noose, but with the tail going towards the noose, rather than away from it. There seems to be a real shortage of pictures showing the "scaffold hitch" as anything other than a totally different knot for tying rope to a flat plank of wood.

I have seen it called all sorts of things. Scaffold hitch seems to be commonly used here at AS, as is "double fisherman knot" for the single application of the knot as a noose. I have even seen a report that tests the breaking strength of "the double overhand knot", when it was used as a noose, not a stopper knot.

So...the knot experts of this world seem to be tongue-tied on this knot.

 

[Tree Pig]

I think you mean a scaffold knot instead of double fishermans knot, no??

Or would that be a (single?) fishermans??

Double fishermans is what you use to tie two ends of a loop together - like for a footlock cord..a scaffold knot is pretty much half a fishermans knot. at least I thought.

Just trying to clarify this point, as I've run into this here before.

I think it is most properly called a double overhand noose. Drawings I have seen of the scaffold hitch look like the Double Overhand Knot making a slip noose, but with the tail going towards the noose, rather than away from it. There seems to be a real shortage of pictures showing the "scaffold hitch" as anything other than a totally different knot for tying rope to a flat plank of wood.

I have seen it called all sorts of things. Scaffold hitch seems to be commonly used here at AS, as is "double fisherman knot" for the single application of the knot as a noose. I have even seen a report that tests the breaking strength of "the double overhand knot", when it was used as a noose, not a stopper knot.

So...the knot experts of this world seem to be tongue-tied on this knot.

Double fisherman's loop, works well for tying eye to eye actually its what the HRC tied cord comes tied with.

 

[pdqdl]

Well...That's the knot, but that is just one more name for it.

I prefer "double overhand noose" (as of today, when I found more information at the international guild of knot tyers, see below), as it IS a noose, rather than a loop. Technically, a "loop" knot does not slide down and form a choker, as does the Double Fisherman's loop. [Literally, in the case of the hangman's noose!]

A good place for authoritative information on knots:http://www.igkt.net/index.php

I consider this site the final word on knots in general, apart from Ashley Book of Knots. The forum at this site seems to be for knot "pro's" to argue about technical points, much like we do here at ArboristSite about tree related activities. Unfortunately, they don't seem to have a directory of all the knots they know about.

 

[brianks2]

Thanks for all the replies. I will try this weekend on the ground level again and see how it does. I think I have it pretty well tuned for my weight.

And yes, the doubled-fishermans is indeed a scafold knot. Most people I talk to dont know the name scafold though. They mostly call it a the doubled-fishermans. Same knot, two names. I do understand the difference between them, one being a bend and the other a noose/loop etc.

Thanks again for the help. This forum rocks.

 

[Tree Pig]

Well...That's the knot, but that is just one more name for it.

I prefer "double overhand noose" (as of today, when I found more information at the international guild of knot tyers, see below), as it IS a noose, rather than a loop. Technically, a "loop" knot does not slide down and form a choker, as does the Double Fisherman's loop. [Literally, in the case of the hangman's noose!]

A good place for authoritative information on knots:http://www.igkt.net/index.php

I consider this site the final word on knots in general, apart from Ashley Book of Knots. The forum at this site seems to be for knot "pro's" to argue about technical points, much like we do here at ArboristSite about tree related activities. Unfortunately, they don't seem to have a directory of all the knots they know about.

Holy crap I thought some of the junk we argued about here was dumb but to spend hours arguing over knots man.

 

[TreEmergencyB]

wheres the treesypder he knows knots....

 

[outofmytree]

Its a double fishermans loop because... well...... because I said so!

Getting back to the OP, buy a freaking micro pulley and put yourself out of your misery. Once you climb with a VT and micro properly set for the rope and your weight you will never go back to a dinosaur knot like a Blakes.

 

[canopyboy]

I see nothing wrong with your setup, but shelling out for a micropulley is definitely worth it. I like the fixed cheek style better myself. You'll find other uses for it too from time to time.

Going whole-hog for a hitch climber pulley is a different story in my opinion. Bit that bullet several months ago and still not sure it was worth the high price tag to me. But to each their own.

 

[md_tree_dood]

Since noone has asked it yet, why haven't you spent the 20 bucks on a pulley?

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

This is a common topic; played out many times in climbing forums etc.

Properly at the IGKT and many other places i believe, they would say an Anchor Hitch (simply a double Overhand Stopper Knot placed on a host/mount/spar; making it a hitch instead of a knot) tied back to itself to from shrinking eye(so make a bight in end of line and make Double Overhand on to what will be the Standing Part with the end, now pointing in the opposite direction) to a krab etc. would be a Scaffold Hitch or Dbl. Noose. Triple is even better IMLHO.

The same Double Overhand knot tied from 1 line onto another, and the same back so that they jam together to bend/join the lines into a longer line, is more properly a Grapevine or Double Fisherman's; ~as i have been taught and used. But, knots names haven't been exactly patented and there are lots more discrepancies, than this one that we see commonly on climbing forums etc. A Square (or it's lesser the Granny) with both ends slipped is how most tie their shoes. What Americans call a Square Knot(MTL work in progress knotAplayer is known as a Reef across the pond, etc. While another variation the Thief is fair for placing between the 2 jamming Overhands of the Grapevine, to make it easier to untie.

Personally, i think everyone being on same page is important, but more importantly pay attention more to the mechanics and dressing (seating) of the components/ knot parts. At least here i can squint and see similar mechanics perhaps leading to the name confusion! Both, try to help 'brace' back where the deformity in Standing 'weakens' the line, and also are secure. Untieability is not as favorable though.

For a Friction Hitch, i prefer a more self tending type, even with tender; like the last one shown in this Friction Hitch Compairison (all self tending except the 'base' 'girthing' Schwab); tied in 3/8" Tenex; so it lays flatter and grabs better IMLHO.

The igkt could use some new blood, as it is just getting deeper into 'working knots'.

 

[RacerX]

Getting back to the OP, buy a freaking micro pulley and put yourself out of your misery. Once you climb with a VT and micro properly set for the rope and your weight you will never go back to a dinosaur knot like a Blakes.

I agree, I'm pretty sure that he can get a micro pulley on E-bay for less than $15 so cost shouldn't really be a factor.

Like OOMT said, once you climb with a more advanced setup than a Blake hitch you'll see a world of difference. The one problem with a VT is that if it's not tied exactly right it can slip. After ditching the Blake I climbed for a while with the VT and really liked it until I began using a Distel which I like even more. :rockn:

 

[outofmytree]

I agree, I'm pretty sure that he can get a micro pulley on E-bay for less than $15 so cost shouldn't really be a factor.

Like OOMT said, once you climb with a more advanced setup than a Blake hitch you'll see a world of difference. The one problem with a VT is that if it's not tied exactly right it can slip. After ditching the Blake I climbed for a while with the VT and really liked it until I began using a Distel which I like even more. :rockn:

Exactly the problem I found with the VT. Fortunately I kept asking better climbers than me for their input and eventually one said, "add another turn or cut off 40mm". Haven't looked back. It's especially good having a really short "harness to hitch" length when you have to get in close to the head on palms.

 

[md_tree_dood]

The easiest solution to the problem that if not tied correctly it slips, is to tie it correctly.

 

[RacerX]

The easiest solution to the problem that if not tied correctly it slips, is to tie it correctly.

That is true, but some hitches are more forgiving than others if tied improperly. The VT is one that's not so forgiving.