Wanting to sell lumber

[discounthunter]

im also a woodworker, so i by specific pieces. ill pick through every stick at a box store to find one that has the charactoristics i need for a project. i have ordered from people all across the country to get specific species i cant get locally most are also woodworkers that have extra.

that being said ,youve gotten some good info to ponder on so far ,let me add this check out your local hardware stores ,cabinet shops ,ect. ask about local woodworkers,get names make phone calls, you may be able to fill the nitch for specific cuts of lumber or species not available in box stores.

good luck.

 

[Curlycherry1]

There is a local guy near me here in the Twin Cities (logs to lumber) that gets urban trees and trees from land clearing for free or just a few pennies. He VERY carfeully cuts them up and even more carefully dries the lumber to perfection. Because of this he has huge wide boards that are nearly clear and or perfectly clear. His lumber is really nice and so he gets a nice price for all of it too. He also has a lot of bookmatched sets which add very good value to the boards with just a little bit of work.

The time he puts into it he gets out of it in the form of higher prices.

http://www.logs-to-lumber.com/clickcarts/

 

[aojgnar]

this is all excellent info. thanx to all for the links. after talking to the owner he and i agree that we are on the right track for what we want.

i appreciate the understanding toward me, the noob.

thanx

 

[Curlycherry1]

this is all excellent info. thanx to all for the links. after talking to the owner he and i agree that we are on the right track for what we want.
i appreciate the understanding toward me, the noob.
thanx

You have not seen our rates yet so don't be so glad to thank us. All us woodworkers will be looking for discounts on what you produce. I can also help you ship by truck all over the US as long as you can load it or drop it off at a trucking terminal. That really opens up your markets for specialty woods.

 

[Brmorgan]

Back in the spring I scanned my lumber grading training materials into PDF and posted them here on AS. The thread is HERE and the direct link to the PDF is HERE. It's more geared towards softwood structural lumber, but there is still a ton of information concerning grading technique, defects & lumber characteristics, species identification, etc. I can't scan the actual NLGA rule book since it's copyrighted, but they can be had for a nominal fee straight from NLGA. As previously stated though, if you're dealing with hardwoods mostly, you'll likely want to get NHLA materials since hardwood grading is a fair bit different, because shop/cabinet grades are based mostly on appearance rather than structural integrity.

Curlycherry had some good points a few posts back too. Most notably that it's important to "read" a log before you even touch steel to it. This is a skill that must be acquired through a lot of experience and trial-and-error. Training will go a long way, but every log is unique and potentially full of surprises. Once you learn what to expect from the wood grain by looking at the outside characteristics of the log, it's much easier to get the highest yield at higher grades. Back in August I posted THIS THREAD with many pictures of a log I milled various different dimensions out of, with descriptions of how/why I made the cuts I did. I should note that I'm by no means an expert sawyer compared to many others here; rather I'm a trained lumber graderman with some sawing experience on the side. I like to take a lot of pictures of the logs I do even if I don't share them here - it helps me remember what did and didn't work well, and why. I try to do it with every log - since I don't do that many it isn't a big inconvenience, but it wouldn't make much sense for someone trying to seriously produce to photograph everything. Photo and video are the next best thing to first-hand experience though and can teach a lot. Like a sports team studying replays of their last game I guess.

All "grade sawing" or "sawing to grade" means is that you are processing the log with the objective of achieving the highest grade possible in all pieces you cut, which may not necessarily allow the highest board footage yield. In a structural dimension sawmill, logs are just cut to get the highest yield at the fastest speed, since in the long run it doesn't matter that much whether a 2X4 stud is flatsawn, riftsawn, or quartersawn (other than differences in warping tendency). Finishing work requires much more attention to the wood grain, not just for aesthetic reasons but also (and possibly more importantly) for stability and integrity, so more time is taken to make sure that each board is cut in the best possible way.

One might assume that (in hardwoods at least) quartersawing would achieve the best grade result. This would likely be true with a good, straight, clear log. But say the log has a lot of small knots, such that it won't really produce clear lumber anywhere, but the knots aren't large enough to make the log a writeoff. If you were to quartersaw the log, you would end up with a lot of "spike knots" in the lumber since the boards are being cut radially from center to edge:

I've admittedly exaggerated things slightly in that drawing, but you can see that a spike knot can occupy the vast majority of the cross section of a quartersawn board, whereas a knot of the same size would occupy just a fraction of the cross section of a flatsawn board, and result in a "round knot" defect. This is why most structural lumber mills actually prefer to flatsaw the lumber if possible - it's just that it isn't worth it for them to slow down and continually rotate and scan logs. For example, in Stud grade a knot can occupy half the cross section of a board (slightly more if it's away from the edges). It takes a round knot of 1-3/4" diameter to occupy that much in a 2X4 (nominal 3-1/2" wide) - HOWEVER it only takes a 3/4" diameter spike knot to do the same damage since the boards are only 1-1/2" thick. But I digress, these concepts are discussed in the grading materials I linked to above.

 

[Brmorgan]

Coalsmoke: I was down in Langley Monday afternoon and yesterday morning, came home last night. I totally forgot that you lived down that way - I'd have tried to look you up. I was up to Maple Ridge to see Lawrence (member "petesoldsaw" since I got him to pick up an old antique McCulloch off Craigslist for me. This is everything that followed me home from that road trip:

Still not sure how I managed to get all that along with my 371 in the trunk of my car...

 

[Coalsmoke]

Aww shoot, it would have been great to meet you, and I could have given you a rundown on the bandmill if you wanted. I bet my parents would like to talk to you a bit too, they're planning on moving up to your area soon. You got all that in your car's trunk, maybe its time for a truck

 

[johncinco]

I'd just like to know....







When are you breaking up with your girlfriend? :hmm3grin2orange:

That is a NICE swingmill. You can grade saw with it. You will have to come up with some stands/bunks to be able to turn the logs and hold them in place. The info you have been given is right on, learn what faces and cuts people want, and you will have much better chance of selling it. If your just making dimensional lumber, you are way ahead with that petersen. if you want to cut for grade and sales, well you have a nice way to do it anyway. You are going to have more waste, but for quality wood you will be hally to live with it.

 

[Kicker_92]

Nice score Brad!

There's probably enough of us in the lower mainland area to hold a get together at some point. Would be nice to make some connections and swap local contacts. There's enough demand around here to keep everyone busy.

 

[Backwoods]

Finding someone that will buy all of the wood that you produce no matter the quality is very rare, yet something we all would like to have.
I have an old dairy barn full of hardwoods that I have milled up. The customers that trickle in are looking for something specific, sometimes they find what they are looking for and other times they do not.
I also have a good assortment of hardwood logs in my log deck that I can mill to there specs, then they send out to be kiln dried. This is a much larger portion of my sales. However, what works the best for me is to never own the log or the lumber and strictly custom saw the customers logs to there specs at there place. This applies to both hardwoods and softwoods.
Each area of the country is different so what works for me may not work for you, that is why searching out the markets in you area will be the most productive way of moving you product. If all else fails and you need to move a stack of low grade lumber advertize on Craig’s list and keep the price low.

 

[Curlycherry1]

However, what works the best for me is to never own the log or the lumber and strictly custom saw the customers logs to there specs at there place.

This bears repeating. I know a farmer back in NY and I have also hired a local guy here in the Twin Cities to saw some logs for me and both of them said far and away custom sawing is the way they make money. They show up, they set up, they saw, they get paid, they pack up, they drive away.

Lots and lots of people have a tree or afew that get knocked down or taken down and they want the lumber to make something to remember the tree by. That is the twist that makes them the money. Plus they have no money tied up for months or years in inventory sitting in a garage or barn.

 

[Sawyer Rob]

This is the best diagram for the different ways to quartersaw, that i've seen,

Actually, the only one that's "true" quartersawing, is the "radial" Q. sawing, and second best is "common" Q. sawing, which is the way that "i" do it.

Most of the ways i see guys Q. saw, they aren't getting all true Q. sawn lumber, they are getting more "rift" sawn lumber.

Rob

 

[Brmorgan]

This is the best diagram for the different ways to quartersaw, that i've seen,

Actually, the only one that's "true" quartersawing, is the "radial" Q. sawing, and second best is "common" Q. sawing, which is the way that "i" do it.

Most of the ways i see guys Q. saw, they aren't getting all true Q. sawn lumber, they are getting more "rift" sawn lumber.

Rob

Yeah, it's just too bad that the recovery/yield rates for those methods are significantly lower than alternate sawing, which is what you see more commonly. You generally end up with more pieces which are wider on average that way, though as noted the farther down you saw the quarter the wood will become more and more riftsawn. Still, the largest initial cuts will be very close to, if not perfectly vertical grain. Very usable for all but the most demanding applications.

 

[Sawyer Rob]

The bottom line is, IF you want more Q. sawn lumber, you saw it one way, IF you want more rift sawn lumber, you saw it the other way and that's the info i thought we were shooting for.

If you want to minimize waste, use a bandmill, and flat saw the log... Flat sawing may not give you as "high of priced" lumber, but you'll have more of it!

Rob

 

[mikeb1079]

great thread guys, keep it coming. as a rookie sawyer (i shouldn't even be calling myself that) it's inspiring to see and hear what can and should be done to maximize a logs potential. after all, beauty and utility are the reason why we use wood in the first place. thanks for that diagram of quarter sawing sawyer rob. that's also the best (easiest to understand) one i've seen too.

 

[Backwoods]

Trees grow differently in the different climates that exist across the country, and how they are “pruned” affects them as well. I find that very few of the common logs here in Oregon are even worth quarter sawing. It takes a pretty good log before I saw for quarter sawn wood. More often, I am grade sawing a log and will take quarter sawn out of part of the log.
Species will also affect whether or not you want to quarter saw a log. Oak and some of the other species that have wide mazula rays can be worth loosing some lower grade wood to go after the quarter sawn lumber. However, other species like Myrtlewood that have much smaller mazula rays, color and grain patterns are more valuable then quarter sawn.
With soft woods that do not have inter locking fibers such as the pine and cedar family’s, quarter sawn lumber is much weaker lumber.
Another factor is the size of the log will determine if it can or rather “should” be quarter sawn. As a general rule for me, if the log is not over 18” on the small end I do not even consider it as a lot that I would quarter saw, next on the list is the quality of the log. For quarter-sawn wood, the grain pattern should be straight uninterrupted grain.

I have put sawyers in the seat full time for four or five years and still considered them a rooky. I have butted heads with some in the industry to put a rooky in the seat and in six months, she was a better sawyer then a guy that had been in the seat for 25 years calling himself a sawyer. One thing that I like to believe, is that the guy doing the clean up is just as important as the guy doing the sawing. And because of this, I have trained some real good top-notch sawyers by not over looking the talent that is in front of you. So do not give up your desire to be a good sawyer.

 

[Curlycherry1]

Backwoods brings up a good point in that only oak is really worth quarter sawing. I have QS cherry, maple, and walnut and sure it looks a bit different, but it is does not have drastically different figure. White oak has ray flecks that show up when a log is properly quartersawn. And when I say properly quartersawn I mean someone who studies the end of the oak log and checks to find the signs of the rays (pencil thin lines on the end of the log) and they saw parallel to those lines.

I have quarter sawn white oak boards that are covered in ray fleck because the sawyer took his time and found them and made sure his cuts would feature them.

 

[aojgnar]

Backwoods brings up a good point in that only oak is really worth quarter sawing. I have QS cherry, maple, and walnut and sure it looks a bit different, but it is does not have drastically different figure. White oak has ray flecks that show up when a log is properly quartersawn. And when I say properly quartersawn I mean someone who studies the end of the oak log and checks to find the signs of the rays (pencil thin lines on the end of the log) and they saw parallel to those lines.

I have quarter sawn white oak boards that are covered in ray fleck because the sawyer took his time and found them and made sure his cuts would feature them.

do you have a pic of what you are talking about? i would like to see what ray fleck looks like.

 

[Curlycherry1]

do you have a pic of what you are talking about? i would like to see what ray fleck looks like.

Here is photo of Quarter Sawn White Oak (QSWO) harvested off the web. You can see the growth rings and then kind of at a 45 degree angle those lighter lines are called rayfleck.

Here it is from another picture harvested off the web in this case the QSWO is probably fumed with ammonia to give it that dark color. When this is done the ray fleck really stands out. Stickley Furnature was made out of white oak that was quarter sawn and they often fumed the oak to give it that dark color.

 

[Brmorgan]

I've been finding some really nice flecked Oak in pallets I've salvaged recently. Only good for small pieces obviously, but when you live hundreds of miles from the nearest native Oak tree of millable size, ya take what ya can get. It's a time consuming way of gathering material and has occasionally done a number on a set of planer knives via hidden dirt or staples etc., but has so far been worth it. I've come across some really interesting and exotic woods before in foreign pallets, some still unidentified.

Ray Fleck is a result of "wood rays", which are the ~7-10% of the fiber mass of the tree that grows radially from pith to bark, unlike the vast majority of the wood fiber which grows vertically along the length. As far as I know the only real function of wood ray fiber is for structural support, but don't quote me on that. In most species these rays are either barely detectable or invisible altogether without magnification, but in some, like Oak, they can become very prominent and desirable.