wedge vs rope

[luvthetrobag]

what do you guys think offers more leverage and control? I think the rope does. I drove by a job and saw guys using ropes and wedges. Dont quite understand what the benifits are to a wedge or the uses of one that a rope can't provide. I know an old guy who climbs and use wedges up in the tree. I think id feel a lot safer with a rope on a piece than a wedge. and what about things that lean back.I mean how far can you really bring something over with a wedge?

 

[John Ellison]

I agree that there are times you need a pull line, but I think you should always have wedges right at the tree as insurance even if they do not get used. There are all kinds of things that could happen and you would be grateful for the wedges. If it is a hard pull the wedges will make it a lot easier. No need to put a big strain on your pull line.

 

[PA Plumber]

I am definitely a novice. That being said, about 14' of lean, or so, is the most I have tried to throw a tree against, using wedges.

 

[beowulf343]

what do you guys think offers more leverage and control? I think the rope does. I drove by a job and saw guys using ropes and wedges. Dont quite understand what the benifits are to a wedge or the uses of one that a rope can't provide. I know an old guy who climbs and use wedges up in the tree. I think id feel a lot safer with a rope on a piece than a wedge. and what about things that lean back.I mean how far can you really bring something over with a wedge?

What's wrong with wedges up in a tree? I use them now and then when blocking down a stem too. The thing is when every single cut and drop needs to be perfect, a little redundancy is not a bad thing. Sure, the rope will do it, but why not have back-up? I've seen too many freak things go wrong and so thus try to minimize all my chances. Plus if you're cutting huge blocks, a wedge can help keep the saw from pinching. I actually prefer using wedges if i'm working with newbs-your rope is only as good as the guy on it. A jerk at the wrong time or some slack at the wrong time can ruin your day pretty quick. With wedges, all the control is on me. And if you know what you are doing, wedges can do a pretty amazing job. But i'm from a logging background-alot quicker to know how to properly use a wedge than setting a rope.

Sadly though-the use of wedges seems to be becoming a dying art. Have worked with experienced takedown men who think i'm crazy when i bring out my wedges.

 

[Buzz 880]

I use wedges in the bush everyday they make life alot easier but when doing tree removals i always use a rope with some wedges to back it up.

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

Wedges have limits. You can put a lot more pressure on a tree with a well placed rope or two, than with the best wedging.
Wedges are also very species dependent. A typical evergreen can be wedged very effectively, while some hardwoods can be steered very little with wedges.

 

[Climb020]

I had to agree with you beowulf. I have only been with one company that usues wedges on a regular basis. At the very least they are a back up to throw in just incase. I think most will agree that a rope is not needed most of the time and a wedge or two will put most trees right where they need to be. Though I am no expert by any means with them, I went through a period refusing to use a rope just to sharpen skills.

I think one big bonus in the tree is with newer guys they try to rock pieces of the spar and forget that the piece could snap off on the back rock and really mess you up. Still waiting for the rattle wedge to be offered in the US. If anyone in the UK is able to get them fairly easiy let me know.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

As said above they both have their time of use. Sometimes it is difficult to get a rope into the tree for a good pull and you do not want to climb it.

I will often use both, have the wedges to ensure that the tree does not set back down on the curf. If you want a fat hinge, the rope and wedge can work together (I don't advocate that, but I know people who do it regularly).

If you climb the tree to install the rope, you can set it around several stems and tie a static bo'lin and get better direction of pull. In this situation a running bo'lin would compress the crown before the pull starts, which can be a desired result in some, few, situations.

 

[clearance]

As said above they both have their time of use. Sometimes it is difficult to get a rope into the tree for a good pull and you do not want to climb it.

I will often use both, have the wedges to ensure that the tree does not set back down on the curf. If you want a fat hinge, the rope and wedge can work together (I don't advocate that, but I know people who do it regularly).

If you climb the tree to install the rope, you can set it around several stems and tie a static bo'lin and get better direction of pull. In this situation a running bo'lin would compress the crown before the pull starts, which can be a desired result in some, few, situations.

This is good advice, when I can wedge it I do, otherwise, especially if the wind is not in my favor I rope it, usually with a wedge or two for backup. One thing that is true, most arborists are NOT fallers. Some think they are, but they are not, not even close. I am not a faller, just a utility/removal guy, but i have learned a lot from them, real fallers that is. There are a few on this site, listen to them if you are going to use wedges a lot.

 

[Stihl User]

I use both........

 

[joesawer]

Wedges have limits. You can put a lot more pressure on a tree with a well placed rope or two, than with the best wedging.
Wedges are also very species dependent. A typical evergreen can be wedged very effectively, while some hardwoods can be steered very little with wedges.

I steer with my hinge and face cut. All the wedge does is provide lift.
I have used it on all kinds of species all over North America, they lift in all of them except the ones that are to dead and decomposed or to soft for some reason.
The species that I have had the most trouble wedging over is Virginia Pine. They want to spit the wedge out all the time.
Wedges have their limits, ropes have their limits.
This should not be a rope vs wedge conflict. It should be a lift or pull option that can be used together.

 

[kkottemann]

There is a time and place for both.

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

I steer with my hinge and face cut. All the wedge does is provide lift.
I have used it on all kinds of species all over North America, they lift in all of them except the ones that are to dead and decomposed or to soft for some reason.
The species that I have had the most trouble wedging over is Virginia Pine. They want to spit the wedge out all the time.
Wedges have their limits, ropes have their limits.
This should not be a rope vs wedge conflict. It should be a lift or pull option that can be used together.

The fact remains, a rope moves the tree with much more force than a wedge. I would guess 100 times more, maybe under the right circumstances a thousand times more. To me, if I've set a rope, there is no need for a wedge, except in the event the rope (or tree its tied to) were to fail.

The reason we use wedges is it's faster and easier than setting a rope. If you are confident it can be felled without anything, you fell it. If you don't think it will go on its own, you wedge it. If you aren't sure you can wedge it, you rope it. If you don't think it can be pulled with a rope safely, you climb it.

 

[DKdeOhio]

What is a rattle wedge?

Hey Climb20 -
Would you explain what a rattle wedge is? Unfamiliar term....
Thanks!

 

[Treeman587]

Are we on this again? Rope, Big Rope, A couple of em. With a big truck. Hell snatch it down so hard it lands at the landfill

 

[ropensaddle]

I use cable twenty ton winch but have used ropes and wedges I use wedges where a failure would not do damage or loss of life. If I use rope I usually won't be in need of wedge. The reason a rope is better is in the event hinge snaps and tree tries to go backwards a rope in this scenario would make it swing to one side or the other which would usually be better than straight backwards The combination of both should get majority over no problems but it only takes one not going right to cause bad damage or injury or worse. I have seen people fall trees and tear something up that five minute climb would prevent.
What ticks you off is they make your insurance go up with laziness or poor training as these accidents raise everybody,s rates.

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

It really hurts to say MM is write; rope can place more leverage usually on a hinge; being farther from the hinge as pivot between the 2 possible input positions of wedge vs. rope.

But, wedge can be great as backup; in case rope breaks, puller slips etc.

i believe in steering with hinge shape in good wood; but extra force added of rope/wedge forces are to force a stronger hinge, to then steer better. So, rope or wedge i will place to force forward. If you steer with hinge/rope direction; this unloads the hinge pull some, so the hinge can't be your final multiplier on leverage forces as much.

In not so good wood, you need to steer some or totally with rope or wedge though.

1 very good part of wedging is that it will relieve force as tree starts to move; whereby a rope can be pulled later than needed to force strength of hinge, and rather at this point serves to challenge instead of fortify hinge.

Rope can pull if tree stalls easier than wedging though. Also can rap around for some steering effects.

Also, the elasticity of the rope and higher parts of the tree flexing can be used to load more force into the pull when tree starts to move, than the present pull effort at that time. And, this point of first folding; is when you want the brief force highest, to force strongest hinge; then back off to not weaken it/ load against it.

In tree i prefer rope pull, or a small semi trailer tire spoon to leverage in the usual wedge position. Fits the kerf very nicely.

 

[jrparbor04]

here is my two cents,,,i use both rope and wedges,,,wedges are an added insurance on the tree,,,yes they provide lift behind the hinge,,,that is what we are wanting,,,on the other hand,,,if you set up the correct mechanical advantage rigging setup,,,,a rope is very efficient in helping with a side leaner or putting the tree where you want it,,,i use both most of the time,,,if you have ever attended an Arbormaster Training in the aspect of precision felling,,then you know what a wedge can do to a tree,,,use both,,,be safe!!!:greenchainsaw:

 

[Ianab]

In a logging situation, a lot of trees to cut, mostly straight it's just wedges to stop the bar pinching and push the tree in the right direction. Much faster than setting a rope and winching trees over.

In an urban setting, high value targets and more leaning trees, then ropes and winches give more control and security. Takes longer to set up, but you can overcome more lean, and the cost of a mistake makes the extra setup worth it.

There is a time and place for both.

Cheers

Ian

 

[joesawer]

Are we on this again? Rope, Big Rope, A couple of em. With a big truck. Hell snatch it down so hard it lands at the landfill

LOL...... Thats right with the stump still on it. Saves all that work.