Wedging

[John Ellison]

This is kind of a sub thread from another post. I am not asking this in any "mean spirited" way. It is a question for the arborist's You have to take down a 60'x-5' leaner. Just came up with those figs off the top of my head. Its a bushy field with a mud hole under the lean of the tree. The groundman was smoking cigarettes and caught all the ropes on fire. But you do have wedges and an axe. Nice green tree and not real limb heavy. Are you confident enough in your wedging and saw cuts to fall the tree 180 against the lean to keep it out of the mud or do you come back later with rope?
Now if your going to ask me if I am confident enough to climb it and top it or do anything else up there for whatever reason, I will say no right now

John

 

[SteveBullman]

you didn't mention wether or not if there was by chance a 40mph wind blowing against the lean

 

[John Ellison]

No wind, but lots of onlookers, just to add to the pressure.

John

 

[SteveBullman]

i'd get a rope

 

[NeTree]

Is the tree leaning 5' or is it 5' in DBH...

 

[MasterBlaster]

The first order of business would be the groundman buying new ropes, and then quitting smoking.

 

[John Ellison]

Its a two footer DBH. But the groundman is out in the crowd now betting with people that you cant do it.

John

 

[MasterBlaster]

That groundie just ain't a team player now, is he?

 

[Ax-man]

It is possible to pull this off, if the tree has excellent hinge quality, example would be American Elm, Hackberry and some conifers.

You couldn't do it with just one notch and a couple of wedges.

You would have to start high and use multiple cuts with shallow notches and thick hinges, to hold the tree on the stump. Each notch would turn the tree in increments, with the last notch being placed in the intended line of fall.

Larry

 

[arboromega]

you could not do this with just an axe you would need a saw at some point...how else could you make the back cut? the wedges would be in the way of the axe

 

[glens]

Oh, it can certainly be done.  If the stem was arrow-straight it'd only be out 1" for every 12".  You'd better have a whole bucket full of wedges, however.  And an 8-lb "axe" would be nice to have on hand.

Glen

 

[lostone]

LOL good one John, I know your asking the question to get at what I wasn't able to explain. I felt it was a good question cause of all the things that could go wrong. And was curious as to how the pro's would do something like this. I dont know if this will show up very well so I will try and see if it does and maybe this will get to the point of what I was trying to earlier. My main concern was that in making the notch cut that the pressure of the tree to want to fall with the lean would cause it to want to split and kick back (barber chair?), thats why I was asking if a rope with a small amount of tension on it would help, And that for a safety a couple of straps should be placed to help if it did try to split. I know I came off on that thread like the village idiot but I'm thick skinned and can take it I would rather know if the occasion where to happen than try it and land a tree on myself I do see the point of the wedges to help lever the tree past the lean, my main concern tho was before it was to that point in making the notch and if it would present a danger at that point. I do appreciate all the answers. Like I said it was just a hypo situation and was only for general knowledge.

 

[BigJohn]

You say just an axe and wedges. But then you ask are we confident with our sawing? Is that what ya all call it when you hit a tree with an axe?

I would just cut it and let it fall in the mud cause I put it ground and its someone elses problem to clean it up. Its about safety not keeping clean.

 

[Treeman14]

Drop it in the mud and let the groundie who burned your ropes deal with it. And since chipping it would ruin the blades, he has to load it by hand onto the flatbed.

 

[NeTree]

Notch it, wedge it. 5' isn't that bad at 60' height.

 

[John Ellison]

Lostone, I did'nt mean to sound like I was taking a *** at you or anyone else. Was just curious if the guys that regularly take down trees with a pull line are comfortable without one in a no sweat situation. Do you yell at the groundman "Pull line... I dont need no stinking pull line" all the while picturing yourself as a real logger,and wishing you were one. "I'll make that hinge wood say uncle." And then have your way with said tree.

Walter Mitty

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

The 300# line pull at 10' from hinge would yield the matching 3000# on hinge from wedge, higher would yield more.

The extra force from line leverage could be used for steering imbalance to gunned face if hinge does not do that job adequately, then the rest of the force increased in hinge could go to make a faster hinge or more powerful hinge, depending on backcut and pressure by artificial/non tree device after first folding. a stronger slower hinge into a wide face can give very lil ground concussion, spring branches, maintain soil for other roots in area etc.; as well as practice far end of control of speed and direction for when really needed i think.

i think a line pulled high with a slower backcut and hinge steering (not line pressure steering) is safer than being back there pounding wedges. Though, wedges stop pushing when the tree moves, a line might be kept being pulled by crew; if tree were not going to stall, i think shold generally be left alone to fold with more force than speed.

Outsmarting the tree with wedge can feel good, i think wedge also induces more arched motion on spar, pushing up, as hinge converts to forward motion. In urban settings with trees under 100' line is ample and safer i think.

:alien:

 

[lostone]

Originally posted by John Ellison
Lostone, I did'nt mean to sound like I was taking a *** at you or anyone else.

Walter Mitty

Didn't figure you where, . Just knew it was trying to get at the point.

 

[NeTree]

It's all moot...

I'd be too busy kicking the groundies' arse to hammer in the wedges or get another rope.

 

[a_lopa]

if i had a ground crew there id climb and limb the tree so i dont have to clean up,and save my blades.block it down in lengths.maybe fall the head out.if the blades were dull id drop it