Well...that sucks!

[Chevboy0167]

Use to watch this show quite a bit when it was on. I hate to see and hear good working Americans forced out of their jobs...

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/mar...pc=U531&cvid=b5aa163af81646d69589038922c81414

 

[ValleyForge]

Use to watch this show quite a bit when it was on. I hate to see and hear good working Americans forced out of their jobs...

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/mar...pc=U531&cvid=b5aa163af81646d69589038922c81414

It’s surreal….and it’s going to get much worse…

 

[northmanlogging]

Use to watch this show quite a bit when it was on. I hate to see and hear good working Americans forced out of their jobs...

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/mar...pc=U531&cvid=b5aa163af81646d69589038922c81414

Scapegoating
Fuel prices were the same or higher even in 2009, timber prices were in the toilet too, Timber prices are way up right now, across the country.

If a few dollars an hour, (like 10-20) is enough to put you out of business, then you are doing something wrong, its a business expense like everything else.
And if you can't get trucks, when you own the ******* trucks... then that tells me you can't get drivers, which tells me you won't pay the drivers
Plenty of folks are doing just dandy with fuel prices, do they suck, yes, is everything more expensive yes, so raise your rates, or quite bitching.

And I've seen enough of this goodsens crew episodes, they have too much iron, too big of iron for the jobs they do, beat the dog **** of the iron they do have so their maintenance bills are stratospheric and are trying to do it on too large of ground to even remotely be sustainable, so yeah, his fuel costs are going to be astronomical, especially considering the lousy production relative the the machines thrown at the work.

 

[ValleyForge]

Scapegoating
Fuel prices were the same or higher even in 2009, timber prices were in the toilet too, Timber prices are way up right now, across the country.

If a few dollars an hour, (like 10-20) is enough to put you out of business, then you are doing something wrong, its a business expense like everything else.
And if you can't get trucks, when you own the ****ing trucks... then that tells me you can't get drivers, which tells me you won't pay the drivers
Plenty of folks are doing just dandy with fuel prices, do they suck, yes, is everything more expensive yes, so raise your rates, or quite bitching.

And I've seen enough of this goodsens crew episodes, they have too much iron, too big of iron for the jobs they do, beat the dog **** of the iron they do have so their maintenance bills are stratospheric and are trying to do it on too large of ground to even remotely be sustainable, so yeah, his fuel costs are going to be astronomical, especially considering the lousy production relative the the machines thrown at the work.

No doubt he did raise his rates…he’s not a charity…and now he’s out of business, so that didn’t work….It would be none of my business if our government wasn’t to blame….now it is our business because the government is to blame.

 

[northmanlogging]

No doubt he did raise his rates…he’s not a charity…and now he’s out of business, so that didn’t work….It would be none of my business if our government wasn’t to blame….now it is our business because the government is to blame.

yup blame the government for your own incompetence, that's scapegoating FYI.

Fuel prices aren't that bad, unless you use dumb ass methods and waste a lot of fuel moving giant oversized machines in small timber on soft soil. Then yeah I guess the 90-150 gallons per machine x what 5 to get a measly 5-10 loads out per day, would be pretty hard to make money like that wouldn't it.

 

[ValleyForge]

yup blame the government for your own incompetence, that's scapegoating FYI.

Fuel prices aren't that bad, unless you use dumb ass methods and waste a lot of fuel moving giant oversized machines in small timber on soft soil. Then yeah I guess the 90-150 gallons per machine x what 5 to get a measly 5-10 loads out per day, would be pretty hard to make money like that wouldn't it.

Perhaps he should have gone to all EV equipment….

 

[northmanlogging]

Perhaps he should have gone to all EV equipment….

Likely not...
though, maybe going with smaller skidders, spending the time to build decent roads, hiring competent operators that don't tear **** up. And paying his drivers a good wage to do a good days work, would go a long ways towards keeping things moving rather then waiting on broke down equipment and lazy drivers.
The smaller skidder deal is that I know they work on cruddy muddy ground, and run huge float tires, but if you half the weight of the machine, and carry half the wood per turn, you need to spend less time building skid roads, less money on huge fecking tires and burn less fuel, the smaller skidders make up for it by being faster on less fuel, carrying 3/4 the load means you can go faster while loaded, meaning 2 turns for every 1 a big skidder would take, but also the lighter turns aren't exactly half, more like 3/4 so end of the day you will yard more wood in the same time on less fuel. Not to mention the time dicking around trying to stuff massive grapples full of logs, smaller grapples means you can likely grab a pile and go, rather then backing around and jockeying to grab a few more sticks, to "justify" they turn. the time it takes to do so you could be back to the landing and on to the next turn.

These guys also run massive feller bunchers and processors, which is all cool and stuff, and something that is needed for the sort of production they expect, however, they could easily down size the machines a notch or 2 and still get as much production, the timber they mess with isnt' that damned big, so again bigger the machine, the more fuel wasted just moving the machine. Its like taking a big block saw to trim the rose bushes, fun but way more work and fuel then needed.

Arguably, they would save a lot more money in machinery moves as well if they ran smaller equipment in general, less overweight permit fees, less chase cars (maybe? they do run them duals on the skidders) but less weight in general would again burn less fuel per move.

 

[catbuster]

Fuel prices suck. It is what it is. If he’s working for someone under contract, he’s stupid to not have a fuel price adjustment line item in his contract. That was something I used to… ahem, use when I was managing multi-year projects. It works both ways if you’re trying to be honest with your client, too. They get a cut in prices as fuel changes down.

If he’s getting paid by timber production, then yeah fuel sucks. But it shouldn’t put you out of business. I have, let’s call them friends, who are killing it right now with jobs bid in 2020 when fuel prices were stupid low. They’re in a low-profit game to start with, where 6-8% is a reasonable margin, but all fuel prices are doing is losing them maybe .75% on the job.

Fuel is expensive, but so are wages, equipment payments, materials (yeah, there are some in logging), equipment repairs and so on. I mean, seriously. Think about it, let’s say a skidder burns 10 gallons of fuel an hour. That’s $40 an hour for off road fuel. An operator should be making $30, period, and a health package and employee overhead adds ~40% on the cost. The employee costs more than fuel. Much more than fuel at 2020 fuel prices.

Fuel prices didn’t put the guy out of business. It just didn’t. If I remember correctly, the guy is probably 55-60, at the point where he can retire, and did. He’s using fuel prices as a ruse to let a lot of guys go.