Tree Machine
Addicted to ArboristSite
That's Senor Fredrico, to you.
What are the differences between tree climbing and rock climbing?
- Thread starter crtreedude
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Tree Machine
Addicted to ArboristSite
Fred, are the limbs above where you will be climbing, are they covered with plant life? This is kinda important to know.
By the way, are you growing teak, cocobolo, nazareno or lignum vitae? I could dial you into a friend in San Jose who has a nursery and gives saplings away free as a way of fighting back against deforestation. He's near San Jose'.
By the way, are you growing teak, cocobolo, nazareno or lignum vitae? I could dial you into a friend in San Jose who has a nursery and gives saplings away free as a way of fighting back against deforestation. He's near San Jose'.
Tree Machine
Addicted to ArboristSite
To bring up some major differences between rock climbing and tree climbing, rock climbers rarely have a saw (or saws) hanging off their hip. Tree climbers rarely don't.
Can't say I've ever seen a rock climber wearing spikes, either.
Tree climbers are big proponents of hearing protection, rock guys, no.
Tree climbers wear mountain boots, rock guys wear something closer to ballerina slippers.
Tree guys, more likely to use a camel back, rock guys only on all-day multi-pitch activities.
Rock climbers, passionate about their sport. Tree climbers, passionate about their sport, and feed their families doing it.
Rock climbers might see a 'spliced eye' as a really gnarley injury. Tree climbers see it a time-saving tool of swiftness and efficiency.
Tree climbers wouldn't generally go without a flipline. Rock guys wouldn't generally know what is a flipline.
Tree climbers, wouldn't generally go without their Big Shot. Rock climbers, think they are a Big Shot.
There are more, but let's focus on the technical differences. So far Butch's Troll has been the only picture.
Can't say I've ever seen a rock climber wearing spikes, either.
Tree climbers are big proponents of hearing protection, rock guys, no.
Tree climbers wear mountain boots, rock guys wear something closer to ballerina slippers.
Tree guys, more likely to use a camel back, rock guys only on all-day multi-pitch activities.
Rock climbers, passionate about their sport. Tree climbers, passionate about their sport, and feed their families doing it.
Rock climbers might see a 'spliced eye' as a really gnarley injury. Tree climbers see it a time-saving tool of swiftness and efficiency.
Tree climbers wouldn't generally go without a flipline. Rock guys wouldn't generally know what is a flipline.
Tree climbers, wouldn't generally go without their Big Shot. Rock climbers, think they are a Big Shot.
There are more, but let's focus on the technical differences. So far Butch's Troll has been the only picture.
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crtreedude
ArboristSite Member
Egads guys, do you ever work?!
Okay, the purpose is to remove the growth on trees that will get too heavy and fall over and wipeout serveral trees in the plantation. This is the natural state of the trees after a while (like 50 to 100 years). These are trees among the fields that we have planted around. It seemed a bit silly to me at the time to cut down a big value tree in it's prime, just to plant more trees. So, I left them up and will deal with the headache of maintaining them for about 25 years. Of course, the way things are going in tropical hardwoods, these trees will be worth a ton of money in 25 years, just like in USA, there are becoming fewer and fewer really large trees. Some of these trees are almost extinct as well, so preserving them as seed trees is very important.
So, I am not trying to impress tourist - the people who visit us are visiting their trees we are growing for them, we also have several areas (about 25% of the land) going native.
We do not use Machetes in the trees, we use hand saws (by the way, which rope stands up to a chainsaw? ;-) )
As far as the guy offerring free saplings, I know of him and his website, but I sort of doubt he would give me 11,000 seedlings. That was the amount that I planted this year. Our planting this year was more than 25 acres.
We planted Teak, Mahogany, Spanish Cedar and Surá this year, we are hoping for several other types next year, almendro is one that I will find a place for and also Laurel.
By the way, a trivia question for you. How big did our teak grow in one year from seedling? They were about 4 inches when we planted them.
Okay, the purpose is to remove the growth on trees that will get too heavy and fall over and wipeout serveral trees in the plantation. This is the natural state of the trees after a while (like 50 to 100 years). These are trees among the fields that we have planted around. It seemed a bit silly to me at the time to cut down a big value tree in it's prime, just to plant more trees. So, I left them up and will deal with the headache of maintaining them for about 25 years. Of course, the way things are going in tropical hardwoods, these trees will be worth a ton of money in 25 years, just like in USA, there are becoming fewer and fewer really large trees. Some of these trees are almost extinct as well, so preserving them as seed trees is very important.
So, I am not trying to impress tourist - the people who visit us are visiting their trees we are growing for them, we also have several areas (about 25% of the land) going native.
We do not use Machetes in the trees, we use hand saws (by the way, which rope stands up to a chainsaw? ;-) )
As far as the guy offerring free saplings, I know of him and his website, but I sort of doubt he would give me 11,000 seedlings. That was the amount that I planted this year. Our planting this year was more than 25 acres.
We planted Teak, Mahogany, Spanish Cedar and Surá this year, we are hoping for several other types next year, almendro is one that I will find a place for and also Laurel.
By the way, a trivia question for you. How big did our teak grow in one year from seedling? They were about 4 inches when we planted them.
rumination
ArboristSite Guru
The mahoganies (mostly Swietenia species) are in the Meliaceae family. Gums are in the Myrtaceae.
Rock climbing evolved from mountaineering and then became sport climbing which is where your skill hail from. As long as your not hurting yourself, others or the trees unnessesarily your good to go in our eyes. You dont get pulled up for hanging on gear or grovelling a final pitch (or using your knee) as we climb from a purely practical basis rather then a sporting one. Technique for us is what gets the job done with nothing broken and no one hurt (and maybe some money in the bank)
Okay first ditch your screwgates unless they are for gear or light rigging, those suckers are bombproof in the straight foward cliff face in a sport harness but in a tree with everything going on they are a liability, the first you know that ones opened up on you will be a falling sensation, get some petzel williams ball locks or simular 3 action locking karabiners. Slings are good to keep as are a couple micropulleys. Your rock prussics can stay at home to, they are to thin, get some 8mm+ones as you will be using them to decend on.
man theres alot to this tree lark, anyone know any good books?
Okay first ditch your screwgates unless they are for gear or light rigging, those suckers are bombproof in the straight foward cliff face in a sport harness but in a tree with everything going on they are a liability, the first you know that ones opened up on you will be a falling sensation, get some petzel williams ball locks or simular 3 action locking karabiners. Slings are good to keep as are a couple micropulleys. Your rock prussics can stay at home to, they are to thin, get some 8mm+ones as you will be using them to decend on.
man theres alot to this tree lark, anyone know any good books?
crtreedude
ArboristSite Member
By the way, in Costa Rica I am known as Don Fred - it takes a bit getting used to I can tell you. (not Senior Frederico) Of course since my hair is almost totally white (the only other color is grey), they may just be mistaking me for an old geezer. (Responds to comment back a page or two)
Yes, the mahogany is the Swietenia macrophylla,
http://www.fincaleola.com/mahagony.htm
The link to the tree section is
http://www.fincaleola.com/news.htm
(Don't ask me why I called it news.htm, but I am not changing it, all the search engines know it now)
Spanish Cedar is in the same family, often it is used for cigar boxes, fine furniture and guitars. Often has an orange color when first cut, usually has a red tint after it dry. It has no relation to the cedar we know in USA, but it has a strong aroma that repels insects.
Good info on the screw biners, I guess that makes sense. I think I am going to like this more than rock climbing. I bet you don't destroy tendions like in rock climbing...
So, to divert slightly, what are the hazards that are the most common that might not occur to a rock climber? Obviously falling is common, but someone just mentioned hornets...
Yes, the mahogany is the Swietenia macrophylla,
http://www.fincaleola.com/mahagony.htm
The link to the tree section is
http://www.fincaleola.com/news.htm
(Don't ask me why I called it news.htm, but I am not changing it, all the search engines know it now)
Spanish Cedar is in the same family, often it is used for cigar boxes, fine furniture and guitars. Often has an orange color when first cut, usually has a red tint after it dry. It has no relation to the cedar we know in USA, but it has a strong aroma that repels insects.
Good info on the screw biners, I guess that makes sense. I think I am going to like this more than rock climbing. I bet you don't destroy tendions like in rock climbing...
So, to divert slightly, what are the hazards that are the most common that might not occur to a rock climber? Obviously falling is common, but someone just mentioned hornets...
Tree Machine
Addicted to ArboristSite
The first book to start with would be The Tree Climber's Companion. This comes in both English and Spanish, is well-illustrated and covers traditional tree climbing systems really well. On Rope is deep, and focuses more on Rock, cave and rescue. Exceptional wealth of info there, but too much for the purely practical aspect of getting up, around, and back down a tree.
Like Timber says, we climb from a purely practical basis, so unlike rock climbing, we grab ahold of our rope frequently, a no-no in the world of sport climbing unless your intent is to prove you're a girly man. For us, it's primarily the reason we climb on 13 mm rope.
Rock climbing is a 'team' sport, or a partner sport in that there's (usually) a belay man and a climber, or on giant wall, two climbers acting as each other's belay; one paying attention to his buddy as the other solves the next problem. There are solo, self-belayed lead climbers in rock climbing, but they're the exception. In trees, we are generally always self-belayed lead climbers.
For a tree climber to climb on belay would be the exception. More often would be for the ground guy to assist in hoisting the climber into the crown, but then he's gotta get out of the way. There will be tree material coming down.
HAZARDS? For you it would be poop-throwing monkeys, ants the size of your thumb and the lovely and gentle terciopelo. We get tendonitis not from sticking out fingernails into a rock wall, but starting and operating chainsaws.
Timber McPherson seems to believe this is essential gear for tree work....
Like Timber says, we climb from a purely practical basis, so unlike rock climbing, we grab ahold of our rope frequently, a no-no in the world of sport climbing unless your intent is to prove you're a girly man. For us, it's primarily the reason we climb on 13 mm rope.
Rock climbing is a 'team' sport, or a partner sport in that there's (usually) a belay man and a climber, or on giant wall, two climbers acting as each other's belay; one paying attention to his buddy as the other solves the next problem. There are solo, self-belayed lead climbers in rock climbing, but they're the exception. In trees, we are generally always self-belayed lead climbers.
For a tree climber to climb on belay would be the exception. More often would be for the ground guy to assist in hoisting the climber into the crown, but then he's gotta get out of the way. There will be tree material coming down.
HAZARDS? For you it would be poop-throwing monkeys, ants the size of your thumb and the lovely and gentle terciopelo. We get tendonitis not from sticking out fingernails into a rock wall, but starting and operating chainsaws.
Timber McPherson seems to believe this is essential gear for tree work....
Stumper
One Man Band
Actually falling is supposed to be a non-issue in tree climbing-That is what the rope and saddle are there for.(And the reason for always having a second tie-in or lanyard in place when cutting). Taking a big swing (especially unintentionally)can get you hurt. The critters like wasps bees,snakes, rats, etc can be a cause for concern but they usually aren't. Biggest injury issue for tree climbers is usually cutting oneself with the handsaw.:angel:
crtreedude
ArboristSite Member
Actually, I meant the falling which you never want to occur because you screwed up. Good point about climbing above you protection. I suspect there is sport tree climbing, but that is not a point. If I had a cherry picker, I would use that instead of a rope.
In rock climbing, falling is not the plan, but it happens all of the time, so you prepare to always fall, especially when you do not expect it.
I would think having the same attitude when working in trees might make you live longer. Always assume something will go wrong, and you probably will not be disappointed.
One big difference might be that on top roping, when you are done, you just allow your belayer to lower you. It sounds like in tree climbing, you are sell belaying pretty much all of the time.
Of course, in the tropics, we have to deal with monkeys, I don't know if I mentioned it, but if you get too close, they throw their poop at you. Now THERE is a hazard!
In rock climbing, falling is not the plan, but it happens all of the time, so you prepare to always fall, especially when you do not expect it.
I would think having the same attitude when working in trees might make you live longer. Always assume something will go wrong, and you probably will not be disappointed.
One big difference might be that on top roping, when you are done, you just allow your belayer to lower you. It sounds like in tree climbing, you are sell belaying pretty much all of the time.
Of course, in the tropics, we have to deal with monkeys, I don't know if I mentioned it, but if you get too close, they throw their poop at you. Now THERE is a hazard!
arboromega
ArboristSite Operative
cr...
you know this from rocks, same for trees...dont climb alone. learn this with a friend. many things could happen that get you stuck in that tree. you may not even be hurt, could just have your line caught. just have someone there with you.
you know this from rocks, same for trees...dont climb alone. learn this with a friend. many things could happen that get you stuck in that tree. you may not even be hurt, could just have your line caught. just have someone there with you.
arboromega
ArboristSite Operative
oh yeah, and unlike rock climbing our biggest challenge is not can you get to the top. anyone can do that. its how far out can you get on that limb
crtreedude
ArboristSite Member
I am sure a lot of people will tell you I have been out on a limb bunches of times - or did you mean literally?
After all, I moved to Costa Rica to start a tree plantation.
Definitely planning on having people around to get me out when I get stuck!
After all, I moved to Costa Rica to start a tree plantation.
Definitely planning on having people around to get me out when I get stuck!
MasterBlaster
TreeHouse Elder
Yea, look at all the hoopla that fool who cut his arm off generated. And it was all his fault.
crtreedude
ArboristSite Member
No substitute for excercising the muscle inside your skull. Mistakes are really hard to undo when you are 50 feet up.
When I was rock climbing, I would often get someone who felt it was uncool to say things like "Belay On, Belay Off", etc. I would find someone else. When you start acting cocky is when you seriously get hurt.
When I was rock climbing, I would often get someone who felt it was uncool to say things like "Belay On, Belay Off", etc. I would find someone else. When you start acting cocky is when you seriously get hurt.
Treeclimbing isnt as graceful as rock, but your never going to find a guidebook for the tree your about to climb. Our tendons probably do last a little longer but we climb with alot more frequency.
A mate who was an arborist in South Africa told me that they used to have blacks belay for them in trees, I dont know how the system worked but there labour was very cheap.
Treemachine you know that cant be my riding partner, she wouldnt be seen dead near a harley ferguson.
A mate who was an arborist in South Africa told me that they used to have blacks belay for them in trees, I dont know how the system worked but there labour was very cheap.
Treemachine you know that cant be my riding partner, she wouldnt be seen dead near a harley ferguson.
crtreedude
ArboristSite Member
Now that is an interesting concept - labor is inexpensive in Costa Rica in the country so having a person belay you might not be a bad idea. Definitely I will have ground crew to send things up - like tools, food, water.
I sort of like the idea of Trad climbing in trees, but I would have to get a partner to come after to clear the protection after it was set. Then, from the top, we could just rapell down.
As far as rock climbing being graceful, obviously you have never seen me climb...
I sort of like the idea of Trad climbing in trees, but I would have to get a partner to come after to clear the protection after it was set. Then, from the top, we could just rapell down.
As far as rock climbing being graceful, obviously you have never seen me climb...
NickfromWI
Addicted to ArboristSite
Pura vida, mae!
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