What are the "must haves" for a NEW tree care service?

[outofmytree]

Thanks for the advice. I've got some ideas to work on now.

After this thread, I want to go get a cert. for climbing and rigging. I hadn't really thought much of it before until now. The biggest trees I'm taking on are 90ft palm trees. Every other kind of tree has never been more than 5 stories tall. My company is the really just a "chigger business" with the teeth in the small jobs that none of the big outfits would want to trip over unless they were getting paid way more than what a small job is worth. I can only bite off what my company has a big enough mouth for.

First time I got a call to cut out some mamoths growing 10 ft from an apt. complex came in last week. I took 30 seconds to look at that job, and told the manager that I would never do it. If a single branch slipped off the rope from 10-15 stories above this building, I'd never hear the end of it. I've got the balls to get up there and monkey around, but I've got the brains to turn down the job without certification for climbing/rigging even if the customer is trying to get me to take the job. I'll take jobs like those one of these day when I've got the insurance to cover any damage costs might amount to more than the cost of the jobs themselves.

86' F-150 w/ 4'x8's on the sides
85' C-30 14'x8' dump truck
A tiny echo saw
16" Poulan
Eager Beaver 3.7, 60cc
A set of tools, Haynes manuals, and a creeper.
opcorn:A good ol' investor with few interests except seeing what I can do with his money.

A mans gotta know his limitations....

 

[TimberMcPherson]

What climbing arb experience have you got, who did you learn from?

 

[ForTheArborist]

I just went out, and started doing it. I've got enough common sense and athletic aptitude to do good work up there. I've just never been in anything where I needed a belay system or the likes.

Now I see where all the action is, and I want to get some course work done in those areas. I saw a few DVDs and books on the subjects at the ISA website that I'm ordering. I'll beef up there, by the proper gear, and practice the methods before I go, and get certifications from anybody. I want to get a few of the cert.s, and show up to the contractor's board. I think I could get a year knocked off the 4 years req. if not more.

I taught myself what I know, and I'm a natural in the trees. Seriously.

 

[treeoperations]

i think you could do with some time working for one of the bigger out fits to learn the trade and what gear you can see as being a must have, i dont mean to sound negative but even passing on the big jobs your in way over your head

 

[ropensaddle]

Clients willing to compare apples to prunes. Location,location,location I must be in the wrong one.

 

[TimberMcPherson]

i think you could do with some time working for one of the bigger out fits to learn the trade and what gear you can see as being a must have, i dont mean to sound negative but even passing on the big jobs your in way over your head

Very Solid advice.

You will make more money, have less accidents, loose less jobs, buy better gear and generally get further away from being another hack cowboy if you get EXPERIENCE and KNOWLEDGE working for other companies. Thinking being a "natural" is enough and your going to learn the rest through trial and error and reading up is pure arrogance and ignorance.

Do you know enough to know your doing good work? Or is the fact your not dead yet, get paid and the clients (who know even less than you) say they think you did a good job enough to call you back.

The best investment I ever made was the time spent as an employee and later a contract climber to other companies. I know a few that are self taught and its got them nothing but a bad reputation and professional stagnation.

I would listen very carefully to the advice you get from these guys, in all likleyhood they have fogotten more about treework than you currently know.

We have all been rookies, what path you take from here will decide if you become a cowboy hack or an arborist

 

[huskystihl]

Not sure how practical it is in Cali but here in OH a bucket truck is the way to go. I watch the small outfits that climb stay busy and pull in 3 to 5 bills on a good day. Don't get me wrong thats decent money but thats done by lunch loot if you can get up and down quick. Trimming is where the money is at a-lot of times and workin your way around the tree is the most productive out of a bucket. Now you also gotta look at the investment as well, good climbing gear can be had for around a grand as opposed to a decent bucket starts at $25000 and then a chipper starts at around $10,000 but you also don't have to have the dump truck either. I also know guys that wont do anything but climb so to each his own.

 

[Giel]

I got started the same way like you plan to do, that was about 13 years ago. After climbing 2 or 3jobs that went well (but looking back should have gone wrong, I was just lucky, very lucky) I went working full time for a local tree service as a groundie for a couple of months and then started doing more climbing jobs for them. Working with some of these guys taught me so much! More than I learned in 3 years forestry training in school. I would say, be patient, work for someone else for a year or so as an apprentice climber. Once you have the basics, practice 'till you drop (no pun intended) and you'll be ready to do it on your own. Be prepared to keep learning (but then, that's the fun bit!)

Cheers,

 

[chipmaker29]

I dont have 15-20 years in the business but have been goin for awhile now and started it out the hard way. started with truck & trailer, saws and some hardcore determination to succeed. worked way up, have truck, chipper & grinder as well as alot of other equipment now.

business built on customer satisfaction and knowing our limits & also knowing when to turn down jobs that were just to much for us starting out. there is a need in this field for quality people that do good work and make sure customers are satisfied. money is in trimming and smaller jobs, IMO. large jobs equal smaller profit margin for us.

also, gotta be willing to do it all urself & save money that would otherwise be paid out in wages. this makes for long days and some sore muscles but it will pay off for you. i guess the most important thing is to be driven with a vision for a successful future. DONT take unnecessary chances! know ur limits and focus on keeping customers happy & building a good reputation. it is hard but there are many that have become very successful in this business and we are working our way there still. u can make it but be prepared to make some serious sacrifice before u will be able to be successful.

good luck!:greenchainsaw:

 

[arbor pro]

I dont have 15-20 years in the business but have been goin for awhile now and started it out the hard way. started with truck & trailer, saws and some hardcore determination to succeed. worked way up, have truck, chipper & grinder as well as alot of other equipment now.

business built on customer satisfaction and knowing our limits & also knowing when to turn down jobs that were just to much for us starting out. there is a need in this field for quality people that do good work and make sure customers are satisfied. money is in trimming and smaller jobs, IMO. large jobs equal smaller profit margin for us.

also, gotta be willing to do it all urself & save money that would otherwise be paid out in wages. this makes for long days and some sore muscles but it will pay off for you. i guess the most important thing is to be driven with a vision for a successful future. DONT take unnecessary chances! know ur limits and focus on keeping customers happy & building a good reputation. it is hard but there are many that have become very successful in this business and we are working our way there still. u can make it but be prepared to make some serious sacrifice before u will be able to be successful.

good luck!:greenchainsaw:

Very sound advice. I agree completely - especially with being prepared to makes some personal sacrifice during your climb to success. Invest back into your business more than into your own wallet. Think of it as a long-term retirement plan where you feed as much as you can into it while you'e younger to get things rolling.

 

[ForTheArborist]

I see it like that too, arbor pro.

To the guy that said that you get better cuts of pay when you don't have a pay roll. That is true as long as you have fairly easy jobs, and the jobs are not coming too fast.

If the jobs are coming fast enough, you should put some hands on the pay roll. Look at it like this. If you can complete 10 jobs in a month by yourself, and you make 5 grand, you can complete 15-20 jobs in a month, and make several more grand if you have the right amount of hands helping you get those done. You have to figure out how many are necessary to increase profit without decreasing profit. This is where the "science to the owner job" comes into play i.e. gauging how many hands it takes to do what you want without defeating the purpose.

I know from experience that if I have a bunch of jobs lined up, the faster I get those done, the faster I can get to more jobs therefore make some more money. Ultimately this means more money on jobs that might turn away from me if they can't expect the job done in a week or two.

I haven't been hiring to remedy this problem. I've just been good at keeping custimers committed while I'm busy with other jobs. The thing is that customers want it done soon, fast, and hastle free. The ones at the end of the line are never as happy to see me and pay as the one at the front of my line that are generous and tipping me out. It would be a more effective service if I had one or two hands with me to knock out my rows of jobs when I get slammed.

The boss has to gauge what is needed, what is possible, and have a proper ad campaign. Advertising takes brains unless you've got plenty to spend on agents to do it all for you. I think that this is the other side of the coin that makes or breaks the company. If the ads aren't done with proper strategy and persistance, the company will suffer slumps. Too much slumping in the income, and the service can't stay open.

 

[lt1nut]

I think you need to be careful not to preach to the teachers you are asking advice of. I know you'd be happy you didn't ask me for advice only to turn around and post what you just did....

Gumption and entrepreneurial spirit/drive can be good traits; tempering them with humility and modesty make them great traits.

I mention the above because when I checked your profile nothing was listed for any type of schooling or business experience. Save your investor some money, and, more importantly, yourself a ton of integrity, and do more than read just one small book on guerrilla marketing.

You were starting to show some promise until your last post, I tried hard not to blast you too much.

 

[newsawtooth]

Guy,

Where are you finding trees that are '15 stories' tall? You're a steel worker ain't ya? Further more, you sir, are full of ####.

Thanks for the advice. I've got some ideas to work on now.

After this thread, I want to go get a cert. for climbing and rigging. I hadn't really thought much of it before until now. The biggest trees I'm taking on are 90ft palm trees. Every other kind of tree has never been more than 5 stories tall. My company is the really just a "chigger business" with the teeth in the small jobs that none of the big outfits would want to trip over unless they were getting paid way more than what a small job is worth. I can only bite off what my company has a big enough mouth for.

First time I got a call to cut out some mamoths growing 10 ft from an apt. complex came in last week. I took 30 seconds to look at that job, and told the manager that I would never do it. If a single branch slipped off the rope from 10-15 stories above this building, I'd never hear the end of it. I've got the balls to get up there and monkey around, but I've got the brains to turn down the job without certification for climbing/rigging even if the customer is trying to get me to take the job. I'll take jobs like those one of these day when I've got the insurance to cover any damage costs might amount to more than the cost of the jobs themselves.

86' F-150 w/ 4'x8's on the sides
85' C-30 14'x8' dump truck
A tiny echo saw
16" Poulan
Eager Beaver 3.7, 60cc
A set of tools, Haynes manuals, and a creeper.
opcorn:A good ol' investor with few interests except seeing what I can do with his money.

 

[BC WetCoast]

Where are you finding trees that are '15 stories' tall? .

Not in San Diego.

I was in San Diego lately, I doubt that he has many jobs lined up ready to go.

 

[newsawtooth]

Vancouver,

Now that's a town I can get behind. Have you guys been staying busy? Looking forward to the Olympics? I wish they would let me immigrate, alas I have no skills that you guys are short on. I get up around 15 stories without a belay and I am useless.

Not in San Diego.

I was in San Diego lately, I doubt that he has many jobs lined up ready to go.

 

[ForTheArborist]

Some times what's real to someone isn't even there.

I don't know what you last few posters are seeing when you look at my posts, but your replies tell me you are not reading them when you're looking. I've encounter this tripe before. It usually is linked to having a few too many to make sound judgments about me. :jester: :jester:

By the way, thanks for "taking it easy on me." opcorn: You had me going for the slightest second. I can't remember them when they're that small though.

 

[treeclimber101]

Gigantic :censored: and no social life , because this will take everything you have to give and need more , when I started ten yrs. ago I thought I would be living in a big house , nice cars and money to burn , but instead I'm broke very little time for fun and almost divorced , the only plus is I don't have a :censored:ing boss AND THAT'S IT!!!! Good luck ....

 

[teamtree]

1. Insurance.....all of it...including workers comp

1a.Good understanding of tree biology

2. Integrity

3. Some business knowledge....skills

 

[ForTheArborist]

You know the thing is that to run business your social life is your business. It's a total substitution. There are priviledges for being the one that does the job of making jobs. Most people just want to show up somewhere, get a check, and live life completely out of mind of work. That is not what this is though.

People have to be made up for the "lead dog's shoes." Namely not being *ull of shi* and able to "cut the cr@p" on cue. Also the head has to see the big picture in a different degree or a wider spectrum of degrees. When occupations become more mentally involved, it become worth more even if it is yet working for someone else.

One guy said that his lead job doesn't pay off well for him, but like I said, it's mental aptitude. If that is what's not paying off, then patience and doing the extra homework to produce results are the things to grope at. If that is what the guy is, he'll reach the pay off, but if he is sacrificing too much time to do all of the "back stage" work to do all of the hanging out for people, I doubt he can make the cut.

For a few reasons I think that the "key stone to the arch" is advertising online. These days the ad work is mainly online because it's cheap and easy for the customers to access. Above the paper yellow pages the web is where to put the most efforted strategy. If not, then the majority of all work will go to your competitors because they are there, and the customers are there. That is the "meat and potatoes" of the ad work I would say. I would like to read any thoughts that contradict that though.

 

[treevet]

My website just adds a little drop of business. Everything matters tho. You gotta have one anymore.

IMO the important thing is the foundation of your business. Your character to start with. How tough you are mentally and physically. After that you have to strive for perfection. You need to eventually know what the big boys know both in tree care and removal inclusive. You have to collect extensive equipment that compares to the big box companies. Experience and knowledge needs to be gained every single day.

Once you have this all together and you want to get into the mainstream quickly it is time to take your game on the road. Sure the town you live in is nice and you know everyone but will it pay off for all you have invested to be their tree service? (not saying here that the big company that goes all over town is not a good thing....just it takes longer).

Buy a humble house in a very nice neighborhood/town that at first seems out of your reach. Chances are if you have kids the town will have very good schools and this will also keep up your property values for what you may have overextended to buy. You may soon have equity to purchase equipment etc.

Join stuff. Play basketball, softball, get on the fire dept., ESPECIALLY get on the Urban Forestry Board. Maybe later on move up on the hill and live with the lawyers, doctors, business leaders, etc. Join the local country club, attend a church if of that persuasion..

It all pays you back if you are living a good honest life and not trying to rip people off or living the life of a lush or overly self important.

Just my 02