What do you think of this liner installation?

[Blue42]

I finally got a woodstove installed yesterday. Woodstock Keystone. I'm not sure that three things in the installation were done well or that it was priced well.

1. They got the T obviously crooked. I don't think it will matter for operation, but it's rotated, not going straight up, because the guy on the roof didn't pull the slack up after the T was finally fit into the back of the stove. Maybe it will be good in the end to have a little bit of slack there, but this was not intentional.
2. They jackhammered out the whole top of the fireplace behind the damper. Not just a little bit. (See pictures.) Because of that, for me to block off the chimney with insulation around the liner, I have to fill just about the whole top of the fireplace, and I will have to cut out a metal plate probably, to hold it up.
3. They didn't seal the bottom between the chimney and liner at all. They said they did seal the top with insulation.

The job was a total of $3700. $1800 was the liner kit itself, which is just what they cost for the insulated ones for 6" and 30'. And they had to rent a manlift because their 40' ladder wouldn't reach the top of the chimney. (And when they showed up the first time and jackhammered the back of the fireplace out, they found out the ladder wouldn't reach and had to reschedule. Then they cancelled because the manlift wasn't available because the previous people hadn't returned it.)

And I watched them work, and from the stuff they did it seemed like they had barely done this before and didn't know what to expect. I had to suggest using my floor jack and a 2x4 stud as a lever to lift the liner up higher while trying to get it to fit in the back of the stove. And I had to suggest going to get my tree saver strap to wrap onto the liner to help pull it in. Both of which we did, and were necessary.

I cut the tape off the bottom so that I could see what was inside and it looks fine. I also pulled the bottom cap off and looked inside and it looks fine also. I asked them if it was just a slip fit of the liner into the T and they said no, that it was clamped. Update: I see from online pictures that apparently the hose clamp in the last picture is attached to the T with straps welded onto it. :Update

It just turned out to be super expensive, and I don't like having to now do more work to seal the bottom.

 

[Patrick62]

Rough install.
Having been a "contractor" more than a few times, If someone is paying that much for an install...
It would have been my job to make certain that they get the highest quality possible.
Years ago did a insert in my mothers house. was only necessary to cut away part of the damper to get the pipe thru.
Yeah, in your instance, a metal plate is the best option.
Many moons ago there was a stove on the hearth at fathers house, and a metal plate which it drafted into. No pipe.
It worked, but every few years we would pull it and clean the old fire box.
With that tall a rise, you are probably better off with the liner pipe.

 

[Mad Professor]

That's an ugly hack job.

I did all mine myself.

A traditional masonry fireplace consisting of: firebrick lined firebox, damper and smoke chamber, and clay lined chimney and flue. This was all in good condition, free of any cracks or defects, and was thoroughly clean before any work was done.

Ordered a custom assy from Rockford Chimney. Custom 6" to ovalized 316-SS T-connector w/cleanout, flexible ovalized 316-SS flue/insulation for flue, SS chimney top/flue connector , SS chimney cap.

Was ~$1300 15 years ago. UL listed lifetime transferable warranty. Free delivery and no tax.

Rockford Chimney

They made an ovalized 316-SS felxible flue, that is ~4" X 8" ~= to a 6" flue my stove needs. It allowed me to just remove the damper and snake the flue to the top of the chimney, to the cap which seals the whole chimney. The flue got a UL listed complete insulated blanket from the damper area to the top. It stays so hot I get almost no ash in the flue at all, never creosote.

I can remove the cleanout on the stove T-connector, and tape off a garbage bag, Then remove the flue cap from the chimney cap with a simple hose clamp, and brush it out in less than an hour with a flexible section brush.

I didn't have to hack the traditional fireplace at all. Just remove the damper from it's two pivots, and it could be a fireplace again replacing the damper. No demolition.

To meet National fire codes, I extended the hearth with fireboard topped with granite slabs ($300). The mantle got protected with an aluminum plate ($50), spaced off the mantle using ceramic fence insulators.

The stove is an old Warner that is still like new. Takes 30" splits as big as the door, and has a blower which I never need to use unless the house is near freezing. In spite of it's age the stove is very efficient with internal baffles and has an engineered cast door which preheats entering air. The door itself has an internal cavity which heats and directs the incoming air.

If you find a Warner stove, buy it.




PS: The kerosene hurricane lantern and the 1-lb Goex black powder canister on the mantle, are empty.

 

[chuckwood]

I finally got a woodstove installed yesterday. Woodstock Keystone. I'm not sure that three things in the installation were done well or that it was priced well.

1. They got the T obviously crooked. I don't think it will matter for operation, but it's rotated, not going straight up, because the guy on the roof didn't pull the slack up after the T was finally fit into the back of the stove. Maybe it will be good in the end to have a little bit of slack there, but this was not intentional.
2. They jackhammered out the whole top of the fireplace behind the damper. Not just a little bit. (See pictures.) Because of that, for me to block off the chimney with insulation around the liner, I have to fill just about the whole top of the fireplace, and I will have to cut out a metal plate probably, to hold it up.
3. They didn't seal the bottom between the chimney and liner at all. They said they did seal the top with insulation.

The job was a total of $3700. $1800 was the liner kit itself, which is just what they cost for the insulated ones for 6" and 30'. And they had to rent a manlift because their 40' ladder wouldn't reach the top of the chimney. (And when they showed up the first time and jackhammered the back of the fireplace out, they found out the ladder wouldn't reach and had to reschedule. Then they cancelled because the manlift wasn't available because the previous people hadn't returned it.)

And I watched them work, and from the stuff they did it seemed like they had barely done this before and didn't know what to expect. I had to suggest using my floor jack and a 2x4 stud as a lever to lift the liner up higher while trying to get it to fit in the back of the stove. And I had to suggest going to get my tree saver strap to wrap onto the liner to help pull it in. Both of which we did, and were necessary.

I cut the tape off the bottom so that I could see what was inside and it looks fine. I also pulled the bottom cap off and looked inside and it looks fine also. I asked them if it was just a slip fit of the liner into the T and they said no, that it was clamped. Update: I see from online pictures that apparently the hose clamp in the last picture is attached to the T with straps welded onto it. :Update

It just turned out to be super expensive, and I don't like having to now do more work to seal the bottom.

I did mine mostly by myself. I set up some scaffolding so I had a solid platform to stand on while working on the top of the chimney. I let gravity help me in installing a flexible SS liner from the top down instead of from the bottom up. I had to do a lot of jack hammering in a tight space to remove the damper and some brick and mortar. I installed a thick plywood plug below where the flue liner began, and above the plug I drilled a lot of deep holes in the brick and inserted pieces of cut up 1/2 inch steel rebar. The liner went through a six inch round hole in the plywood plug, and I next went up on the roof and poured in a lot of concrete that was held in there and reinforced very well with all the steel rebar sticking out of the brick. The concrete wasn't about to move or crack and made for a very tight and solid plug at the base. Next I dumped in bags of vermiculite from the top of the chimney, and that makes for very effective liner insulation and I think easier to do and use than trying to wrap the SS liner with fiberglass matt. Vermiculite flows like water through the smallest openings and that's why the thick concrete plug is necessary. I'm hoping that it will be fairly simple to install another liner through the plug at the bottom if necessary. I'd have to do some grinding and hammering to cut the old liner off at the base and pull it up and out of the chimney. The vermiculite will pour out into the room once the liner is cut there for removal. I'd also have to do some concrete grinding to enlarge the 6 inch round opening in the concrete to pull a new liner in there, but it's all doable.

 

[Joey Theis]

I did mine mostly by myself. I set up some scaffolding so I had a solid platform to stand on while working on the top of the chimney. I let gravity help me in installing a flexible SS liner from the top down instead of from the bottom up. I had to do a lot of jack hammering in a tight space to remove the damper and some brick and mortar. I installed a thick plywood plug below where the flue liner began, and above the plug I drilled a lot of deep holes in the brick and inserted pieces of cut up 1/2 inch steel rebar. The liner went through a six inch round hole in the plywood plug, and I next went up on the roof and poured in a lot of concrete that was held in there and reinforced very well with all the steel rebar sticking out of the brick. The concrete wasn't about to move or crack and made for a very tight and solid plug at the base. Next I dumped in bags of vermiculite from the top of the chimney, and that makes for very effective liner insulation and I think easier to do and use than trying to wrap the SS liner with fiberglass matt. Vermiculite flows like water through the smallest openings and that's why the thick concrete plug is necessary. I'm hoping that it will be fairly simple to install another liner through the plug at the bottom if necessary. I'd have to do some grinding and hammering to cut the old liner off at the base and pull it up and out of the chimney. The vermiculite will pour out into the room once the liner is cut there for removal. I'd also have to do some concrete grinding to enlarge the 6 inch round opening in the concrete to pull a new liner in there, but it's all doable.

I’ve been needing to replace the liner in my chimney. $3500 quotes to remove/clean and reinstall seems a bit steep to me. It’s about 35ft up and I do not have a lift or scaffolding to use but was thinking of using our K-boom as a tie in point. Any thoughts after doing this on how much more difficult it’ll be working with a harness climbing line on a steep pitch vs just on your feet out of a basket or scaffolding?

 

[Blue42]

I wish I'd hired one of you guys to do it. Thanks for the feedback and install details.

Last week I worked my butt off wedging myself between the stove and fireplace to get a metal plate and rockwool up there. This was definitely not easy. Some one might call it extremely uncomfortable and difficult actually.

I also made a copper reflector at the back of the fireplace and a copper mantle protector. At the cost of a ton more work and over a hundred dollars in copper. Not worth it for heat almost definitely, but looks nice.

Now I just need the wife to put some more unstable large flammable decorations just above the stove.

 

[chuckwood]

I’ve been needing to replace the liner in my chimney. $3500 quotes to remove/clean and reinstall seems a bit steep to me. It’s about 35ft up and I do not have a lift or scaffolding to use but was thinking of using our K-boom as a tie in point. Any thoughts after doing this on how much more difficult it’ll be working with a harness climbing line on a steep pitch vs just on your feet out of a basket or scaffolding?

If you are working on top of the chimney with heavy and very unwieldy stainless flex pipe, working with concrete and other building materials etc. you need a solid platform to stand on. If you aren't familiar with setting up scaffolding and working on it safely I'd recommend hiring somebody to rent some scaffolding and set it up for you. A fall from 35 ft would hurt very very bad. The rest of the work is fairly simple and straightforward, but it would only be that way if you have solid footing underneath you and you aren't wobbling around on a slope while wearing a harness.