What length bar is best for dropping a 50" diameter tree?

[Bermie]

Using a 20" bar, you'd have to make sure your 'fan cut' through the centre of the hinge goes deep and wide enough to remove enough wood so when you cut around the back you are overlapping the 'fan'.
Your picture appears to show uncut wood between the fan and the backcut.

Also when cuting the face, cut it in two sections so it's 40" across or so, not just a dinky 20" face!t

Be sure to set wedges as you go, regardless what cut you use and even if you have a line in the tree

A tree that big, a bit bigger than 20" would make the job a lot easier, it's possible with 20", just got to know what you are facing!

 

[tree MDS]

If you know how, a 'coos bay' could work well.
Jeff

That would have to be an awfully big coos' .. lmao.

 

[Bigus Termitius]

Using a 20" bar, you'd have to make sure your 'fan cut' through the centre of the hinge goes deep and wide enough to remove enough wood so when you cut around the back you are overlapping the 'fan'.
Your picture appears to show uncut wood between the fan and the backcut.

Also when cuting the face, cut it in two sections so it's 40" across or so, not just a dinky 20" face!t

Be sure to set wedges as you go, regardless what cut you use and even if you have a line in the tree

A tree that big, a bit bigger than 20" would make the job a lot easier, it's possible with 20", just got to know what you are facing!

Pardon the pun, right?

That second pic isn't really to scale. The sketch I drew up with a ruler for precise measurements (I was curious exactly how deep a 40" face would be on a 50" tree) looks alot different, there shouldn't be much wood between the fan and backcut. Largely depends on the angle of the face and how deep you can actually go with the fan as a result.

It can be done, but that doesn't mean that it should be, IMHO. I can get it with a 16" bar for that matter.

Just depends on the situation, but I'd much rather have the 32"-36" and have a better hinge.

 

[pdqdl]

The real problem is not what bar you need to cut down the tree. You could do that with a 16" Homelite if you had enough patience.

Let's face it, when that tree hits the ground you will need something much bigger than 28" to cut it up efficiently. Despite the fact that a 28" bar can make it past the 1/2-way point in the log, you can't get to all sides of the log when it is laying on the ground. Particularly with your bucking spikes stealing inches from the effective length of the bar. Furthermore, you ain't gonna be able to roll that tree over to finish the cut, so you had better come to the job properly equipped to cut it up.

I recommend at least a 36" bar.

I have a 50" bar on a big saw. It doesn't get used very often, but it sure turns a dreadful job into a pretty fun tree removal. Big logs are fun to cut up when you have a big saw.

 

[newmexico]

That second pic isn't really to scale. The sketch I drew up with a ruler for precise measurements (I was curious exactly how deep a 40" face would be on a 50" tree) looks alot different, there shouldn't be much wood between the fan and backcut. Largely depends on the angle of the face and how deep you can actually go with the fan as a result.

It can be done, but that doesn't mean that it should be, IMHO. I can get it with a 16" bar for that matter.

Just depends on the situation, but I'd much rather have the 32"-36" and have a better hinge.

yeah that 20 inch bar in a 50 inch tree sketch is pretty skewed it was quick; and I'm not too good with radius and diameter -- probably got the math buggered somewhere in the mix-- it does, I think though, illustrate that it's going to be difficult to get all the wood out of the middle of said tree. Good points on angle of the face. a [ sort of face would be ideal for getting maximum wood out of the middle, but making said face cut takes time and time is money so sometimes it's better to spend that money on bigger bar.

disclaimer, I'm still learning. Appreciate all that you guys that know and share.

 

[MarquisTree]

Here ya go NM.

nice, that would have taken a page of babble to explain to that method too someone who hasn't seen any type of bore cut before.

 

[TreeClimber57]

My saw is 71cc, if a 36" bar is too much for it to power, what is a good compromise? Also, what does full skip chain look like....I've never bought it.

I would not go to 36" on that saw; but my own opinion. I run 28" max on saw that size.. but may go up to 32". I have 32" and 36" bar for 90cc saw.. and 48" for 122cc saw.

Full skip; essentially missing half the cutting teeth.

 

[millbilly]

Who makes a saw with a power head that thin, that you can slip it in the the notch and make a fan cut. Do you have to take the top handle off the saw to make it fit in the notch?

 

[treeclimber101]

I run 25" on everything from a 41 to a 66 , the 261 and smaller usually 20" or so , I can cut just about anything with them except the occasional flush cut ....

 

[Bermie]

Who makes a saw with a power head that thin, that you can slip it in the the notch and make a fan cut. Do you have to take the top handle off the saw to make it fit in the notch?

You just cut a nice wide open notch...

 

[Bermie]

...like this...

 

[RandyMac]

You just cut a nice wide open notch...

Give the Lady an umbrella drink.

Part of my formal training was to practice falling trees that were far over twice the length of the bar. The block or step undercuts allow you to bore or plunge cut the center. The knowledge gained came in handy when I graduated and used 48" to 60" bars on truly large timber. The OP would be better off using an appropriately long bar or finding someone else to fall that tree. Block cuts are not for casual use.

 

[pdqdl]

OK. So you cut down a 10' diameter tree with a 60" bar. Truly an imposing tree, huge potential for bad results.

How are you going to buck up the tree after it hits the ground? It seems impractical to me to consider felling a tree with an undersized saw, then bring in something bigger to cut it up. I'm pretty sure that nobody works that hard making face cuts, boring the center, and then rolling the log over just to cut up the fallen trunk.

Honestly, I'm not being a wise guy here; I really don't know how modern lumberjacks would dice up a really big tree after it hits the ground. Having a big enough saw to start with seems like the best method. Obviously, controlling a saw with an 8' bar would be pretty tough, too.

 

[RandyMac]

pdqdl,

60" twice is ten feet. To answer your question, there were falling saws and bucking saws in the big timber. Falling saws were generally direct drive, big inch McCullochs or Homelites with 48" to 60" bars. Bucking saws were gear-drives for the most part, again big inch Macs or Homies with 60" to 72" bars. For the really big stuff, there were the two-man saws, 8 to 10 foot bars. Bucking large diameter logs requires far more expertise than falling. Cuts have to be precise, and inch or two off can mean a loss of $100s, then we have slabbing, you could get fired for that. Reading tension is a fine art.

 

[pdqdl]

I know a bit about the old saws; I still have one of the old two man saws with gear drive.

I was asking about modern methods of working a big tree...or is it the case that those trees are never encountered anymore?

Sure, twice a 5' bar is 10'. But you cannot cut up a log on the ground with a 1/2 diameter bar length, unless you sacrifice a big percentage of the wood you were trying to harvest.

...or unless you can roll the log over to finish your cuts.

 

[RandyMac]

I know a bit about the old saws; I still have one of the old two man saws.

I was asking about modern methods of working a big tree...or is it the case that those trees are never encountered anymore?

Sure, twice a 5' bar is 10'. But you cannot cut up a log on the ground with a 1/2 diameter bar length, unless you sacrifice a big percentage of the wood you were trying to harvest.

...or unless you can roll the log over to finish your cuts.

First off, very few oversized trees are being felled these days, if they are encountered, I'm sure there will be a big enough saw to buck it. It is no big trick to buck a log twice the size of the bar, I have done it 1000s of times, so have many 1000s of loggers. it takes knowledge and experience. Rolling logs over is for the firewood guys.

 

[pdqdl]

I have no doubt that you have extensive experience, and that you are fully capable of doing the big timber stuff. I freely admit that I am just a flat-lander arborist that only occasionally runs into a 5'-6' cottonwood.

I still have have to call BS on that last claim you made. A 1/2 diameter bar does not reach all the parts of any circle, unless it has full 360 degree approach to the log. ...or you make notches to get to the center.

No amount of experience trumps physics.

 

[RandyMac]

I have no doubt that you have extensive experience, and that you are fully capable of doing the big timber stuff. I freely admit that I am just a flat-lander arborist that only occasionally runs into a 5'-6' cottonwood.

I still have have to call BS on that last claim you made. A 1/2 diameter bar does not reach all the parts of any circle, unless it has full 360 degree approach to the log. ...or you make notches to get to the center.

No amount of experience trumps physics.

LOL!!
Don't know why I bother.
Making a 360 cut on a cylinder is required.

Think about it, I mean really consider what you said. 10 feet divided by two=5 feet.
Play it out, use a ruler if you need to.

 

[tree md]

I fell and bucked trees twice the size of my bar forever out of necessity. Nothing like out West but I do some of the biggest Eastern trees out here. Wedges come in real handy when your bucking big wood. And you really don't have to get all the way through the logs and into the dirt with you bar and chain. If you are using equipment to skid with they will break right off at the kerf as long as you get through most of the cut.

Makes me appreciate having the large saws I do today.

 

[Bermie]

I'm only saying its is possible to fell big trees with short bars, whether it is practical is another matter entirely and the dismantling of the trunk becomes...interesting.
If the OP only has one tree this size to cut, and plenty of time then he can piddle away at it, if trees of this size or comparable are part of his regular work then investing in a big saw would be practical for the very reasons you mentioned.