What size of lowering rope do you use?

[rbtree]

i like to think of taking a dynamic line and prestretching it to it's 'static range' per that load; so that it is prestretched to the load, so will not stretch etc. The fact that the line is dynamic covers you might guess wrong, it be not feasible to expend the effort to tieghen to load, impacting etc.; so ya just do what ya can, as close as possible. Then you have an iline shock absorber in the dynamic /stretching range. Rope tension is working power loaded into the line. Rope is a powerful, flexible, almost magic tool IMLHO.


:alien: [/B][/QUOTE]

Only one problem, Ken,

Our rigging lines are not very dynamic at all. They have less than half the stretch of static rescue/ascending/descending lines. 8% stretch at 30% of load is not what I'd call dynamic...compared to under 3% for high modulus fiber lines, yes. (spectra, dyneema, kevlar, technora, etc.)
Anyhow, I know what you're saying, pretension the lines.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Originally posted by Lumberjack


Runs around 2500 retail, but JPS is a salesman D) and he gets a deal for sellin them, so he reduces the price some.

I was marketing for Greg, but too many of the deals I set up went off somewhere I was not getting credit for.

I have a relationship with a vendor who is very reasonable. That is all I'm allowed to say.

They usually ship withing a matter of days.

 

[Lumberjack]

Originally posted by John Paul Sanborn
I have a relationship with a vendor who is very reasonable. That is all I'm allowed to say.

That sounds soooo dirty.

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

Of course RB is right, those dynamic climbing lines are really springy and ours don't come close. And i should use better matching terms... Line tension is power, so silent in the rope, it can be overlooked, not accreditted IMLHO.

i make my analagy from a scale running from cable as static and one of our climbing lines as dynamic. Seeking the no stretch, no drop, positive steering and handling like on the end of tight cable when i can. So i tighten the line as much as possible, then tighten it more on the moving hinge if possible, to at tearoff have the pull/tension in the line as close to the load pull as possible. i get part of this from the way that the line holds me in the air.

i think that line tension is pull; if that pull equates the load's pull, the load floats/ is very handleable. The line tension also powers line leveraging from a line not running straight down or bent around the load etc. to steer sideways powerfully. i think that when using it like that and having the line pretensioned, the steering starts immeiately, and you actually want to lay the load into the line to tense the line more, to leverage more; then feed across as the line pulls and you are using it's power. If ya catch it just right, the line leverage can force a stronger hinge, by scheduling it's hard pull at the first folding of the hinge.

With such a high pull on the line, the weight of the limb is carried more on the line, and i beleive the line (rather than the hinge)then becomes the pivot, changing the mechanichs. If the load is close to balanced now at the hitchpoint, the hinge's job is very light, and it will push the balanced load around.

Line tension can also be angled to pull out on hinge, that would tearoff earlier logically; or it can compress into the hinge, to lighten hinge's duty i think. For the limb to 'stick' to stop/hinge there must be compression or the limb falls. So the tensioned fibers in limb, force the compression underneath them,a nd the limb stays. A line pulling back into the hinge, can take over part of the tensioned fiber's job, and force compression. Cutting to far down can pinch saw or worse... But, with a small face, and releiveing a lil tension in the line, you can provide the path of least resistance that it seeks.

When the line is empowered with so much tension as to closely match the load, it can power these things on the load too. You can always let more slack, but not always tighten; so for broadest range of control i pretighten habitually, taking the play out of the machine if possible, then try to leesen impact by carrying farthest on hinge.

To force a stronger hinge (it can be babied here on such tight lines, and make a weak hinge) i'll use the line leveraging, or ground throws a throw line over end and forces strength, or..... let load down an inch or so, then 'catch it' back while still on hinge. Any way to hyperload hinge at first flexing, to force stronger hinge for rest of ride. Now i feel like i have a stronger hinge, and a tightline on load.

Rope can give magical help and be an interesting puzzle i think.

:alien:

 

[Tree Trimmer]

I use a retired Blue-streak climbing line for 90% of my lowering. If it gets too time consuming to take little chunks (< 600lb.) out we'll switch over to a 3/4" stable-braid for the bigger stuff.

While there's no substitute for a good knowledge of rigging, there are several ideas floating around the forum that are gonna get somebody hurt . Anytime you bend rope around rope, the friction, bending and tensions induced are much greater than you can imagine. I know the lines we use are very strong, but they're load rated for a reason. To use something like Arbor-plex to rig 800 lb. off of is irresponsible. Also, many of the "techniques" I've seen suggested around here put people in the DZ.

If you want to try something new, and can do it safely without taking a big risk, then use good judgement to do so. Otherwise it would be best to hook up with someone else who already uses similar rigging to show you how it works, and what to watch out for.

 

[Trees Company]

Tree trimmer said To use something like Arbor-plex to rig 800 lb. off of is irresponsible. Also, many of the "techniques" I've seen suggested around here put people in the DZ.

If your reffering to me I say that I have been cautious when comes to my work and I double up with ropes whne thiers a question of strenght, if a heavier rope isn't available. I dont practice technics that are beyond my capabilities or my equipment. I talking about straight lowering with no rigging,

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

i speak of technique some too; i am constantly aware and care-full that someone might get hurt; try to be exact. Guess we've forgotten about the running disclaimer to that effect....

But i say, that what might be called a technique; is generally just a certain value(s) of the same formulae of support and steering that are pushed to their upper leverages/ powers carrying sometimes the rest of the formulae; to support the bulk of support etc. Whereby, the angle, tension, bends in the line, hinge shapes, face shapes etc. are constant components/ variables in a formulae of support; perhaps they are mostly zero or neutralized etc. and seem like not part of it; but they are! And that learning to command and use them, also makes you more aware of them not setting up against you unasked etc.; for you are always working with them. So it is easier to see their patterns when the mistakenly arise. Even after the fact, if things didn't go as expected; being able to diagnose correctly should grant a higher return on the cost of the lesson IMLHO. The tie downs for high leverage examples by way of the bent line, were to show in a simple, inspectable way, the force of any bent line; working for or against you. Warnings about Clock Hitch (from TB), DWT support loads, side leveraging anything (crabiners, lines etc.) inherent in the lesson.

i don't like people in the killzone (path, axis of path or landing area). Even the throw bag thing can be done outside of the KZ; especially if ya wrap the ball around something real quick and pull down on other end for a quick ~2:1, on the leveraged position, of forcing the hinge stronger.

Of course impacted 600 is worse than gently handed off; ~no impact 800. But, good rules of thumb nonethe less; might even go more conservative; situation, line history depending.

Welcome aboard TreeTrimmer!
:alien:

 

[TreeJunkie]

At Hendrickson Tree Care we use retired climbing ropes{ usually hi-vee or safety blue}, as our primary lowering lines... If we get into anything over about 400 lbs or are blocking wood down repeatedly then we'll switch over to 3/4 double braid, Ive thought of getting 1/2 stable braid to replace for the 1/2 lines but the boss shot down the idea.

 

[MasterBlaster]

1/2" Stable Braid rocks. Its amazing the load that line can take, for the size it is.

 

[ROLLACOSTA]

why use retired climbing lines? if there not good enough to climb on ..are they good enough to lower big lumps???...when im lowering a lump over a paved area or what ever i dont want any failiure..as i cant stand moaning clients

old climbin lines are ok for top but i dont think there any good for trunk

 

[TreeJunkie]

RC,,,
I'm not using nasty old ropes here, as RJS say i climb on ropes for about 6 months till they get a little fuzzy,,maybe a tiny nick but nothing major,, if a rope gets in bad shape it is trash, not uses for lowering , I've never had a lowering line break ( knock on wood) and hope never to.

 

[ROLLACOSTA]

ah i see overhere we use a rope for on average 2 years ,ive known some old timers to have a rope for 5 years or more..and there real fuzzy..obviously a 6 month old rope is no problem

 

[igetbisy]

Hey rocky, I'll give you $$ for some of your retired ropes if they are what you claim.

 

[Greg]

I prefer 1/2 lowering ropes, double braid, I also have a 1/2 super braid that has been a great rope for the rough natural crotches of the live oaks around here. I also use 5/8 stable braid when I know that I'll be taking a big top, or doing some heavy lifting with the GRCS.
The GRCS is a kick butt peice of gear. I did one of those removals Friday that make the GRCS (and me) look like such a pro. A 50ft 20inch chinese tallow tree between 2 houses. Tree was perfect for the winch, one main central tall leader, one large leader over a neighbors house, one over the customers house. Used the winch to take each 20ft long branch over the houses in one cut raising the limbs up and lowering them straight down nice and easy. Then drop the top. The GRCS allowed us to take that tree down in less than an hour, with a lot less cutting in the tree and a higher degree of safty. (with out the GRCS I could have had the tree down in about 45 more minutes, but guys would have had to get on the roofs, GRCS keeps you off roofs.) I can train a tree guy in about 10 minutes how to use the GRCS and they are always blow away when they see the size of logs they are able to lift.
Greg

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

I guess I'm he only guy here who likes to use smaller ropes. Most of the time I lower stuff that'll go through the chipper, then when I get down tot he spar, it gets flopped down.
Lot's of trees only need a few limbs roped off and the rest can just be dropped or dropped with the spar. That in mind, why drag out some big heavy rope?
A favorite of the ground crew is a 10mm static line that's stuffed into a bag designed for a 12mm rope, so there's plenty of room for fast stuffing. It's light, small, and static.
The other day Ipulled out the 12mm rope and heard a guy say, "Oh, we gotta use this big thing?"

 

[Lumberjack]

I like smaller ropes too, but if I ever need a bigger rope, then I want to have it then.

Most of the time I just have to rope down limbs, but I dont like not having a tool with me when I need it.

My favorite (or most used) rope is a 12 strand from NE that I get on ebay for real cheap (75' for $29). The rope wears like iron, is real cheap, and it is great for natural crotches, and lowing a limb off its stub, ect... However there are many times when I need to tip tie and lift (GRCS) or whatever where natural crotches just wont work. Then out comes the 1/2 Super Braid or bigger when needed.

 

[rbtree]

Mike,

Using small 10-12 mm lowering lines sounds nice. But I'd guess you'd want to use a friction device, as they'd be hard to hold, especially the smooth and stiff static line.

When it's time to downgrade my 3/8 entry line, I'll try it out.

With our predominance of conifers with usually small limbs, I like to use cheap, relatively light 1/2 inch 12 strand, moving it up as I go, using a natural crotch and a stub or two for friction if needed. Self lowering makes ground work easier. These cheap lines last plenty long, so I only bother with blocks when it makes sense, say to make line retrieval faster and easier.

Carl, you're probably referring to Treeline, NERopes product comparable to Arborplex by Samson. I like it, as it is softer than Arborplex, which means it wears faster..but no big deal...it also has a nubbier feel.

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

I always tie a friction device to the base before I go up, when I know there will be some lowering. That way it's there and I don't have to sit in the tree and wait for it to be attached and worry they tied it wrong, or worse, not have it there if it's needed.
We do very little natural crotch rigging.
The static rope is nice because it is resistant to snaging and seems less likely to tangle, the stiffness works to our advantage.

 

[Lumberjack]

Actually it is the saftey pro, best of my knowledge. The rope has the same flecks, and is from NE. Also it has a 7k tnsl from the dude on ebay, so that would all seem to match up with it being saftey pro.

 

[rbtree]

Oh yeah, that's nice line..the NE rep showed me some at the 2002 ISA Expo, before it was on the market. But it costs about the same as white 16 strand NE or Yale. I rarely buy 12 strand for light lowering as I usually use retired climb lines, but if I do, I get the cheap stuff at 230-250 per 600 feet.