What to Do with a Chinese elm

[FSburt]

hey all would like to ask for some advice on how i should prune a chinese elm that had been pollarded in the 80's and now has all the sprouts(large now) broken from a heavy wet snow we had in the winter of 2000'. I climbed up in the tree today and found the evidence of the previous cutting, stubs left with the new limbs growing out the the side of the cut stub. The tree is about 60 ft tall and about 2/3 is broken from the snow and the other 1/3 is scraggly long thin stems growing up and out form the middle of the tree. I Can't remove it because it is a historical tree that was planted the 1920's by the CCC's. Thought of just pollarding it back to the same main stems from before but this is not the healthiest choice for the tree but I figure the damage was already done from the first job. PS tried out the Distal hitch today along with body thrusting what a improvement on what I used to do, 2 prussics in tandem 1 to saddle and 1 for feet. Is the distal supposed to stretch apart a little when loaded. Next thing I will have to get and try is the mico pully knot tender to advance the knot as I climb. Need to work on how to work my way out on to the ends of limbs though still kinda not sure on how to dothat without falling off. Thanks for the replies

 

[TREETX]

I like pollarding - my favorite form of tree mutilation.

The problem is that it takes a lot of yearly maintenance and like now you will be cutting into heart wood in order to re-pollard.

It is important to do it yearly so you never have to cut more than annual wood.

I would re pollard if removal is not an option. That or leave one of the unpollarded "sprouts" to be a leader.

Does sound no win. That is why we are pros.

Any one can prune up a 300 year old oak and make it look good. This is a real challenge

Good luck - Nate

 

[TREETX]

I recommend pruning all chinese elms at 6 inches to the ground. That or putting them on a boat back to china along with chinese tallow and chinaberry

 

[Stumper]

Are we talking true Chinese elm or Siberian elm. The true Chinese elm is a beautiful tree. Siberian Elms are excellent candidates for topping-----8" below ground level. Of course the original question has no good solution. I would probably try to cut above the old cuts-more adventitious buds on the regrowth.

 

[TREETX]

I might be thinking siberian or "lacebark".

Brittle and fall apart with ice or wind

 

[rbtree]

Hello again, burt!

Yes, the distel (and schwabisch) separate in use, no problem. I do like them,but still prefer the French prussic, Valdotain tresse variation. For a nice foot climbing sytem, try the Petzl Pantin. It is yet to make it into my huge gear kitty... some gear freak I am, huh. Shoot, I dont have a Grigri or I'D, either.

Crown restoration of that tree,and that species, is a heck of a challenge. I would pick the best attached sprouts to leave. If any of them are heavy, they will need some lightening, especially near the ends, which will surely require a pole saw or pruner. Then subordinate (shorten) some of the others, and cut some all the way back. Different length branches will help to spread new growth and foliage out a bit. Regular maintenance will surely be required, say every two years? With siberian elms structural problems, even before butchery, it will be tough to keep it going. good luck!

speaking of fire...:

 

[Rob Murphy]

Ulmus parvifolia?

As Rog an others said It might be hard to crown restore.Keep an eye out for branch inclusions,the limbs you choose to retain maybe weakly attached...tough job...maybe cabling ccould be used ?
Whats a "CCC's"

I use a Pantim all the time now..Iam starting to use a handascender as well..kinda SRT(single rope technique) on a doubled rope with the friction hitch in the middle.Its slower an easier than SRT ...but whats the rush hey.

PS. I learnt to fall tree's while a Deputy Captain in the The Bush FireBrigade....Iv'e fallen a few on the fireline too..Trickey when they are still burning!!!
PPS:I was falling one once an a burning coal fell on my helmet an bounced down the front of someones overalls..he reached for the firehose and shoved it down after the hot coal..boy did he dance!!

PPPS:Snow in Califonia???? You must be up high?

 

[Treeman14]

Let's get our terminology right, OK? That tree was not pollarded, it was TOPPED. Pollarding is an accepted arboricultural practice IF it is done correctly. I think we had a thread on this once before, so I won't go into details over the differences. I'm sure this tree is too old and too large to begin pollarding now, so crown restoration is your best option. As already stated, crown reduction, subordination, and regular maintenance are the order of the day. Good luck. How about some pics?

 

[Stumper]

Rob, CCC's = Civilian Conservation Corps. A program used by F. D. Roosevelt's administration to put people to work during the Great Depression. The Original post probably should ave read 1930's-Which still makes for an extraordinarily old Siberian Elm.

 

[FSburt]

Stumper you are right it was in the 30's when they planted that tree. Is the difference between pollarding and topping height of leaders left after cutting, topping being shorter and pollarding was longer with more stems left. I live at 3000' elevation or 1500 meters. We usually get about 2 to 3 inches of snow a year but the strom that did that tree in dropped over 15" and it damaged alot of trees around here.

 

[rbtree]

Pollarding should be started when the tree is young, so the stub cuts are fairly small. Then each year, all the sprouts are cut off, but leaving the collars. Eventually large knobs develop, but the yearly cuts are small, so the tree compartmentalizes. And no hazards have a chance to develop, as long as regular maintenace continues.

This is a common street tree practice in Europe. There are scattered examples here and there in Seattle, some correctly done...and some not...naturally

Heck, they even have square trees! The pics I saw showed trees about 60 feet tall by 12-20 feet wide on each side!!

Even vehemently anti-topping Cass Turnbull of Plant Amnesty has written articles on pollarding.

 

[TREETX]

I know I am so being a smart a s s and should just go out into the rain but, which one 3000' or 1500 meters?? The metric system is confusing or is it out system? Either way, those 2 are not close to the same.

Getting tired of watching it rain

Nate

 

[TREETX]

here in Tx pollarding does not really exist. About the time a big knot starts to form, some $&ithead deciedes it is quicker to just make one big cut taking off the knot than several little cuts.

This is my problem with the practice. People need to be honest with themselves as to if they can properly maintain it or not.

 

[FSburt]

So the way the mulberries are taken back every year is an example of pollarding. Sorry TreeTx its 3000 ft in elevation.

 

[TREETX]

I know you mean elevation but there are 3.25 feet in a meter, not 2. I know, I should really just go out in the rain.

Nate

 

[TREETX]

The best example of pollarding I know of in California would be the London Plane trees in Berkley.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Berkley has smoe Gingkos that the scaffold limbs are braeking becasue they are too long to support the knob and foliage. Maybe there needs to be a ratio like Mtthuck has devised for thinnes. He has shown through statisitcs that 50 is critical failure for trees in the open, ie 1 foot dbh above flait for a 50 foot tree has a very high risk of failure. I think 30 was nominal, so a one inch stem should be no greater then 30 inches long whwn pollarding?

This argument on pallarding cycles and age have no scientiffic basis. Europe has many different pollarding cycles, often 3 years and sometimes 7.

How do we define "young" tree? A 50 year old burr oak that can reproduce for around 500 years?

I see 3 options for "care" of this tree.

make a clean cut at the end of each break and every 2-3 years return to select the best sprouts for dominance.

"repallard" with a ratio of say 25 above each old pallarding head, so if the average branch is 2 inches then they be left 50 inches long. Then develop a regular cycle within the budjet to maintain the tree. This could be to compleatly remove all sprouts from the pollard union every year, or longer duration,

or to thin the sprouts on a set cycle so they never get too large.

 

[Nickrosis]

Originally posted by Treeman14
As already stated, crown reduction, subordination, and regular maintenance are the order of the day.

I heartily second that. Or is it a third, now? JPS, you're getting way to into this. The tree apparently was topped and should be allowed a return to normalcy.

You can start pollarding at anytime, really....starting out younger is generally better because the tree is able to compartmentalize more quickly because of its present vitality, depending on its vigor.

Nate...find something to do!

 

[Acer]

Originally posted by John Paul Sanborn

This argument on pallarding cycles and age have no scientiffic basis. Europe has many different pollarding cycles, often 3 years and sometimes 7.

The length of the pollarding cycle here is probably more to do with the size of the tree maintenance budget, with a little bit of politics thrown in. A council near me are repollarding every street tree after a 20-30 year gap. It turns out that this is to pacify homeowners who, having seen a few cracks in their houses, are squealing about the value of their property. The council don't want to be seen as doing nothing, so they are doing something ie removing the tops of every tree they have responsibility for.

If you are going to pollard, you should start early in the tree's life, but this is no substute for selecting the right tree in the first place. Pollarding, in England anyway, is an ancient practice which served two purposes. Pollarded trees were used as markers, maybe to show land boundaries or areas of grazing rights, etc. Also, pollarded trees in a wood pasture setting gave a useful crop of binders or poles well out of reach of browsing animals. People did it because it served their purpose. It has nothing to do with plant health care.

Ironically, almost all of our veteran trees were pollards at some point in their lives, leading to the belief that pollarding somehow rejuvenates or invigorates a tree. It's probably more to do with the fact that the pollarded trees served a purpose and were retained, whereas their neighbours were felled for firewood.

Anyone who has Dr Shigo's book "Modern Arboricultur" can find out more on P. 117.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

I've read that timberframers pollarded trees so that they could have logs with the desired sweep to used, same with ship builders. Why work the wood when your using iron tools?

Nick, you'll notice my first option was crown restoration; clean cuts above the breaks. scheduled maintinance to manage new growth.

2 inch wood is not old wood, if the tree is in reasonable health, it can produce the toxins needed to compartmentalize the head.

I can understand those who do not like the idea of pollarding repeating the mantra of 1 year cylcles. If you have a client with a "wrong tree" or a damaged tree they just have to keep but there are hazard targets that raise the risk of new growth failure, pollarding is a management style that can be used. Many people cannot afford a 1 year cylce, but 3 years may be an option.

Oh, and it should be don in dormancy too.