What to do with a volunteer

[DMD]

As I near the end of my military career I am starting to look into other jobs to support the family. Cutting down a tree that you’re in sounds like a good challenge, although I’m not so dense to think that’s all there is to it.

What would you pros do if a guy called you out of the blue and offered to volunteer for a week? What would your concerns be? Is there work to be done at a site that requires little to no training, that I could do? Just so I’m clear I’m not expecting to show up and be a ground guy, equipment operator or climber. I’d like to see how the business runs from the inside and pay back the favor with some free labor.

 

[imagineero]

I guess it would depend on what your motivation is. If you were calling to get a job as a groundie, then I's probably put you on straight away on a trial basis. It's tough getting fit, drug free, motivated staff in this industry. I prefer hiring guys like that even if they have no experience at all, so long as they are interested and willing to learn. If that's what you're hoping to get into, then look around for a quality company that does good work. You don't want to start working for some hack and pick up a lot of bad habits. The first few months will really set the standard for how you work in the future. If you work for someone who takes lots of shortcuts and does poor quality work then when you eventually do get a job with a decent company it will seem like a real drag!

Starting as a groundie is pretty easy. It's simple enough work, dragging branches and feeding a chipper. Give yourself a year to pickup all the basic ground skills; using, sharpening and maintaining a chansaw (even if you think you know how to use one now), using ropes and rigging, running a chipper, servicing and maintaining all the gear, the proper sequence of events in running a job smoothly, quickest ways to cleanup. All these things sound like a drag, but they are skills you'll need if you want to run your own business some day. Try to get your CDL during that year if you haven't got one already and maybe put yourself through a chainsaw course.

You can start learning to climb in your second year, and expect to spend a year or two under someones guidance starting out on simple removals and working up to more complex situations; power line clearance, complex rigging, fine pruning, crane jobs etc. You'll also be learning a lot of things about trees.... species, habit, diseases, defects, what good form is. You'll learn how to quote jobs, how to run the paperwork aspect side of the business and all the costs that go into keeping the show on the road. After a year or two of this you can start out doing your own small jobs and eventually work for yourself.

If you called me up to volunteer for a week so you could learn everything you could to immediately go out and work for yourself, then I'd be telling you where to go pretty quick. You won't learn anything in a week anyhow.

Shaun

 

[DMD]

If you called me up to volunteer for a week so you could learn everything you could to immediately go out and work for yourself, then I'd be telling you where to go pretty quick. You won't learn anything in a week anyhow.

Shaun

Yea that would be ridiculous. Just trying to get a feel for this kind of work. You know get actual solid information to make decisions with (like how we wish politicians would). Long range goal is to be self-employed and work with my boys doing something....but that is beyond the scope of my post.

Thanks Shaun.

 

[2treeornot2tree]

Your not going to learn this job in a week. Work for someone else for a few years, then start out on your own.

 

[KenJax Tree]

At least you acknowledge that you have a lot ahead of you before doing tree work and are willing to take the steps to do it right, most guys come in here thinking all they need is a saw,rope,and saddle and they're in business. I hope it all works out for you

 

[jefflovstrom]

What would you pros do if a guy called you out of the blue and offered to volunteer for a week? What would your concerns be? Is there work to be done at a site that requires little to no training, that I could do? Just so I’m clear I’m not expecting to show up and be a ground guy, equipment operator or climber. I’d like to see how the business runs from the inside and pay back the favor with some free labor.

I guess I will say it,,,
You say you are willing to trade labor to look into a company book. You will mow the lawn or wash a vehicle to find out what the books look like and see if it is something profitable.
There are no volunteer's on a job site.
My concern would be your desire. You got a lot of thinking to do.
Jeff

 

[saxono3]

First, thanks for your service. I'm willing to bet you can land a job as a groundie with little trouble. Your a vet, obviously willing to work, and from what I here from the tree service guys good ground labor can be tough to find and keep. If that's the work you really want to do put in some time, learn what you can and when your ready go out on your own.

 

[DMD]

Jeff,
Think less corporate takeover and more like a free sample at the grocery store. No books.

The general vibe I'm getting is that you'd want to be clear on my intentions, got it.

Thanks

 

[Pelorus]

Kudos to you, DMD. My experience with a high school co-op student this past summer was positive, and I enjoyed mentoring someone who wanted to work and learn. As opposed to working with a groundie who has zero ambition in learning anything.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

A lot of employees go on to start their own company, it's thew nature of the beast. They see what a job takes in, but they never look at the input costs, or understand "hidden" payroll costs.

It takes several months for a beginner to become a competent entry level climber, so i would recommend that you shop around for a good employer in the area you intend to retire too; maybe weekends where you are stationed would be a good start too.

If it were so simple that you could watch for a few days, then start up on your own, then we would not be able to charge a rate that keeps the business going. A standard climbing rope costs arround $100, a single tooth for a stump grinder costs $8.00; and you loose one you have to stop for repair before continuing.

Maybe start with line clearance first, then go to residential...

 

[Kottonwood]

why would you work for free? You can learn and get paid at the same time. Find an employer that has a big crew and is short on climbers. If you are worth your weight in salt you'll be climbing within a year.

You really think you'll learn a damn thing by looking at the books? Hell, I'll PM you mine then you can go ahead and start your own business!

You should work for someone for at least a year before you even think about starting your own or you and your family will be on food stamps in short order. It would be even better to work for multiple different employers first.

 

[Carburetorless]

As I near the end of my military career I am starting to look into other jobs to support the family. Cutting down a tree that you’re in sounds like a good challenge, although I’m not so dense to think that’s all there is to it.

What would you pros do if a guy called you out of the blue and offered to volunteer for a week? What would your concerns be? Is there work to be done at a site that requires little to no training, that I could do? Just so I’m clear I’m not expecting to show up and be a ground guy, equipment operator or climber. I’d like to see how the business runs from the inside and pay back the favor with some free labor.

Pick a few tree services and ask them if they need any help. Like they say in the military "When in doubt, whip it out".

Don't be too concerned with all the details of tree removal just yet, no service is going to put in a tree without teaching the ropes first. It usually starts with dragging brush, and fetching the boss' coffee, until you've had time to get your bearings, then they'll see what you can do.

That's how I'd do it anyways.

BTW; Shouldn't this be in 101?

 

[david miller]

Jeff,
Think less corporate takeover and more like a free sample at the grocery store. No books.

The general vibe I'm getting is that you'd want to be clear on my intentions, got it.

Thanks

:msp_biggrin: funny, here in fl no climbing needed strong neck and shoulder for polesaw :msp_w00t:

 

[TreeGuyHR]

I had a young woman call me out of the blue and say she wanted to be an "intern" with my business to learn about it.

She hung out with us on several jobs, and offered to help, but I said no, just observe. She was happy to do that (and I had her wear a hardhat and reflective vest, and attend a safety meeting). I think I remember that she had some college and wanted to find out about the biz. Funny thing was, she had called my sub first, who passed on my number to her. When she called me, I assumed that my sub knew her but that had been the first time she contacted the both of us! She did impress me as highly motivated.

Lost track of her. She offered to help with some of the desk work and technician type field work, but then I hired a groundie who also had an aptitude for that and I stopped considering her.

 

[jefflovstrom]

I had a young woman call me out of the blue and say she wanted to be an "intern" with my business to learn about it.

She hung out with us on several jobs, and offered to help, but I said no, just observe. She was happy to do that (and I had her wear a hardhat and reflective vest, and attend a safety meeting). I think I remember that she had some college and wanted to find out about the biz. Funny thing was, she had called my sub first, who passed on my number to her. When she called me, I assumed that my sub knew her but that had been the first time she contacted the both of us! She did impress me as highly motivated.

Lost track of her. She offered to help with some of the desk work and technician type field work, but then I hired a groundie who also had an aptitude for that and I stopped considering her.

She was probably one of those Russian girl's that got rejected when she got here.
Looking for a hook up.
Jeff

 

[TreeGuyHR]

She was probably one of those Russian girl's that got rejected when she got here.
Looking for a hook up.
Jeff

She was young and slightly built -- which convinced me she wanted to know what it took to run a tree service, not work for one. I hadn't considered that she was looking to marry the boss to do that!:msp_biggrin:

 

[ReggieT]

opcorn:

 

[david miller]

not to change the sub or be sexest but can a women really do this job. i see young men that cant handle it all the time I consider myself in good shape but somtimes after some real rope work, or allday dragging and chipping, or like i said earlier walking around allday with a powerpole, and doing this somtimes 6 day a week, make me think twice about careers. this also goes to the op make sure the is what you want cause it can be dangerous and tough way to make a living:taped:

 

[Vegeta#17]

hum

As I near the end of my military career I am starting to look into other jobs to support the family. Cutting down a tree that you’re in sounds like a good challenge, although I’m not so dense to think that’s all there is to it.

What would you pros do if a guy called you out of the blue and offered to volunteer for a week? What would your concerns be? Is there work to be done at a site that requires little to no training, that I could do? Just so I’m clear I’m not expecting to show up and be a ground guy, equipment operator or climber. I’d like to see how the business runs from the inside and pay back the favor with some free labor.

hello

 

[Incomplete]

DMD, don't be intimidated by the Big Boys. Their bark is worse than their bite, and if you're freezing to death they WILL keep you warm. As a military man you should be used to a good razzing: the trick is broad shoulders, thick skin, and the ability to give as good as you get. Some people only respect you if you can match them belt for belt ;o)

As to tree-work as a trade: it's so fun, it oughta be criminal. And I suspect that's the reason that keeps guys in the trade especially when there are easier ways of making the same good money. That being said, it's also brutally unforgiving and it does not suffer fools at all (this is up for debate: please youtube Mike The Narcoleptic Tree Guy). But also, it ain't rocket science, though scientific it is.

It does not take a year to learn how to drag brush across a yard and stuff it into loud, dangerous, clattering hole that goes NOM NOM NOM. Any moron can do that, and that is why there is such a high turn around in groundies: even morons get tired of making less money than they would on an assembly line, or dealing crack. And they get tired of their perpetual sore neck and the bosses justifiably yelling at them.

I would venture to say that it would take about two weeks of dedicated training to learn what you need to know: after that, it's the daily application of what you learn that makes you proficient and eventually efficient; not "fast" 'cause speed kills. That is where the 1 to 2 years of training is coming from. In all of this keep in mind that the day you stop learning is the day you die: and then it's day one of kindergarten. What is most difficult about ANY trade, is what to charge. Tree work is NOT an easy buck. You earn every bloody penny.

The Depression has EVERYONE protecting their revenue stream; competition is no longer viewed as healthy, but as a cancer. And in some cases they would be right. Especially in an era where laid off Fraternal Order-men, collecting full unemployment for the 4000 week, are gladly undercutting their self-employed "brothers" for half the industry rate. This is just a current fact of life. Deal with it. Thrive in adversity.

But if your objective is to provide for your family, make an honest profit, and provide the best Service possible, then let nothing stand in your way. If the only way to get there is to lie (or not volunteer the whole truth) to a company man to get a job so he will teach you, then that is a choice you'll have to make. But keep in mind that "they" invited you to.

If you're serious about arboriculture then inform yourself; learn everything you can about trees, not just how to cut them down, but also how to make them grow, how to save them, when to cut, and when NOT to cut. When to tell a homeowner to call a hack because you don't do that.

If rope and saddle is your goal, then read Fallers Logging Safety by Oregon Fatality Assessment and Control Evaluation (PDF online, can provide the link) and then On Rope, The Tree Climbers Companion, and TCIA's Best Practices for Rigging in Arboriculture. After that, To Fell a Tree by Jepson.

Be prepared to spend $3000.00 JUST to get into the tree safely. This doesn't include "chip" truck, trailer, chipper, stump grinder, or felling and bucking saws.

Good luck to you, Brother.