Hello all, I have this garden on the west side of the house that has never grown well as long as I've been here. It doesn't get much sun, so I've thought about putting a shady garden there. I now realize that these water oak tress are inhibiting the garden beds as well. I thought about installing big root barriers, but I'd have to cut through the roots. Any thoughts on what I should do to make this happen, or should I just accept this isn't a good spot? Thanks for the help.
What to do with this garden patch?
- Thread starter Lil Dylan
- Start date
Help Support Arborist Forum:
Bullseye T&L
ArboristSite Operative
I would not mess with the roots on the oaks except to remove only what's necessary to get any bed border installed and the plants set in an appropriate size hole. If you do the beds right, their impact will be minimal. So basically only minimal root pruning.
The most important thing is to make sure you have nailed down exactly what light exposure you actually have, and match plants to that. West side would be afternoon sun (part sun), but with those oaks, and any trees across street, you may find you actually classify as part shade. You would also have to adjust this slightly for what zone your in. Hotter zones are going to see more drought stress than a colder zone.
The next most important thing is to nail down what type of soil you have. Many times, without prior successful beds there, you may find that there is a lot of clay dating back to construction. If that's the case, then you'll want to either build an elevated bed, or dig out a bed with a tiller, cultivator, or machine like an excavator and discard/repurpose the clay. I like to have 8-10" depth to play with if possible, but you can get away with as little as 6" if you stay with 3 gallon plants or smaller. Once the bed is dug or built, fill with good bulk garden mix from a local landscape supplier. NOT sod blend, NOT straight leaf compost (though that's not terrible), NOT anything high clay content. Best mix around my area is 35% leaf compost, 35% dirt, 15% sand and 15% processed pine. This works out well in our projects. Ask your local bulk supplier and get their recommendation. Also, initially, I like to add worm castings when installing plants as it seems to help them establish quicker and helps with drought stress. If you're really OCD, you can throw in some diatomaceous earth, but I think that's overkill if you're filling bed with good soil.
The majority of the time I see plants that aren't doing well in an area, it's the light, the soil, or both. Behind that it would be a plant outside or on the edge of it's hardiness zone. Rarely is it the oak tree beside them.
Thanks for the reply. I was hoping to get away with mixing some compost into the existing beds, but I may decide to raise it with some bricks or stones. You're right, that it is pretty much shade/partial shade. Only one section gets any sun at all.
Bullseye T&L
ArboristSite Operative
My gut reaction when I saw the bed was soil problem, read high clay. If it gets the shade you say, then you might can get away with ammending the current soil to a degree. The plants may take a bit longer to establish and mature, but they won't just die off when summer heat hits, and you don't have to run drip hoses everyday. If it were direct sunlight, high heat, then you definitely want to think about getting the clay out and going with a appropriate mix. When we get one like this, we just always default to redoing completely, get a good mix in, and then everybody can walk away and breathe easy.
A couple of things to think about. First, just keep in mind that an act of God could take out both oaks. What would the light be then? With a good soil, even shade/partial shade plants might make it if the soil is good and the plants were establish. Second, by the time you go in and cherry pick certain areas to ammend based on where you think you want the plants to go, sometimes you could have just redone the whole thing for just a bit more effort and cost. At the end of the day, the bulk mix is cheap, like $28 per cubic yard around here. And lastly, a raised bed is a lot easier than digging out clay, and the drainage is better and more predictable.
The area is known for high clay, so perhaps you're right. Could you recommend the most simple way to do a raised-bed? I don't think I have it in me to create a concrete/brick rasied-bed right now. I have no problem getting a good soil mixed dumped in the driveway to fill the bed. About all I'm good at is manual labor. Ha.
Bullseye T&L
ArboristSite Operative
If you're not into building a raised bed on your own, then you might just have to dig out the best you can and add good soil. Beyond that, if you get into landscape block, you're going to want to get a landscaper or hired help involved. They don't need to be high end for this, just able to lay landscape block fairly level and to be able to cut a block if necessary. Lots of block options out there. But, I would dig up that existing dirt first and see what you have before you decide anything. Go down about 6" in few spots. Sometimes, this is where a customer decides they really don't want a bed that bad, lol. Either too much work, or too much hired labor.
The only other route I might mention is to buy some of that plastic landscape edging and you or someone nail it in. You'll probably want something at least 4" tall so that you don't have to dig as deep into clay with the larger plants. But, you may or may not like the way it looks. I've had customers that love it, and some that hate it. This customer wanted everything done with it. I think we ended using around 400 ft all said and done. This was the 2" high if I recall. She had some really good soil already there from many years of prior beds, so we didn't have to do much other than work some good soil into existing, then top with mulch. Plus, everything slope away from house so drainage was not a major concern.
The only other route I might mention is to buy some of that plastic landscape edging and you or someone nail it in. You'll probably want something at least 4" tall so that you don't have to dig as deep into clay with the larger plants. But, you may or may not like the way it looks. I've had customers that love it, and some that hate it. This customer wanted everything done with it. I think we ended using around 400 ft all said and done. This was the 2" high if I recall. She had some really good soil already there from many years of prior beds, so we didn't have to do much other than work some good soil into existing, then top with mulch. Plus, everything slope away from house so drainage was not a major concern.
Before you simply dig out an area and refill it with better soil, make sure it'll drain. Dig a hole, fill it with water and wait.
We live on what seems bottomless marine clay and most of our gardening is done in raised beds of one sort or another. The largest vegetable/flower garden is about 12" deep and bordered by round river rocks. There are smaller beds made of hemlock or cedar planks, some shallower beds with bricks set on end, and some that are just a built up area with sloped edges.
What works depends on your sense of aesthetics, budget, materials available in your area, and what sort of access you need to the inside of the bed. For example, boards are not very attractive but are cheap, simple to build, and easy to reach over for weeding veggies.
We live on what seems bottomless marine clay and most of our gardening is done in raised beds of one sort or another. The largest vegetable/flower garden is about 12" deep and bordered by round river rocks. There are smaller beds made of hemlock or cedar planks, some shallower beds with bricks set on end, and some that are just a built up area with sloped edges.
What works depends on your sense of aesthetics, budget, materials available in your area, and what sort of access you need to the inside of the bed. For example, boards are not very attractive but are cheap, simple to build, and easy to reach over for weeding veggies.
Any soil improvement is only going to draw more roots from the water oaks.
Water oaks are very strong root zone competitors.
I'd consider not trying to grow anything along the side of the house.
Even watering that area is going to draw water oaks roots.
Water oaks are very strong root zone competitors.
I'd consider not trying to grow anything along the side of the house.
Even watering that area is going to draw water oaks roots.
Bullseye T&L
ArboristSite Operative
I think the OP was concerned about oak roots competing with bed plants. Are you talking about oak roots damaging foundation? There are literally thousands of successful beds in my area that are near, or even under water oaks and every other oak we have here. Take a drive into midtown Memphis and its hard find a landscaped bed NOT near a massive oak, of which water oak is probably one of the most common. I've got 2 water oaks in my back yard with beds right under them. Gotta get the soil right though.
2 words…
Raised beds
Raised beds
