What would you do with this tree?

[ORclimber]

Here's a pic of a customers tree. Their house was built in a forest. This Doug-fir sprouted on a rotting stump and kept on growing. Daylight can be seen through the old rotting stump. The tree is probably 14" dbh and 50' tall with a slight lean toward the house. The tree appears normal other than the roots growing over the old stump.

I crowncleaned the tree(with 18 others) and recommended they contact a consulting arborist for a risk assesment.

Just curious how others would deal with this tree.

 

[treeman82]

Before making any recommendations I would try to find out as much about the soil the tree is growing in as possible. What are the properties of the soil it is growing in? How deep are the roots going? How far out are they going? Are they tied into other roots? Is there anything out there to stop root growth in a certain area... foundations, pools, etc.? How healthy is the root system?

Once you have that knowledge I would suggest looking into some form of guying system.

 

[NeTree]

It made it THAT far without falling over, didn't it?

I'd just keep an eye out for signs of upheaval, maybe guy it as a preventative measure, but otherwise... I don't see a major issue.

 

[xtremetrees]

Tree seems to be leaning right over their foot path.
Compaction is not good. Id maybe deep root fertlize the foot path at minimum mulch it really good. Ive seen driveways laid under a leaning tree and killed the tree pretty fast. i think when they lean the root growth toward the side of the lean is much more important and I'd say feeds the tree double what the other (against the lean) roots feed it. errr something like that.Bark trace and clean out the cavity? I'm not sure. Back fill with concrete? Not sure about that either. Concrete has alot of salts in it. Thin the crown on the leaning side to redistribute weight if its not removing to much growth.
Cheers!

 

[Guy Meilleur]

Originally posted by xtremetrees
Thin the crown on the leaning side to redistribute weight if its not removing to much growth.

This is a good idea. Also, before you climbed the tree, you looked to see it would hold you up, right? That was Step #1 of a risk assessment. Step #2 was looking for cracks or conks in the stem while you were climbing.

I'm all for hiring consultants but arborists should not shy away from making observations and passing them on to tree owners. You know enough to issue an informed opinion on your own; just phrase it cautiously and don't make broad judgments. let's face it; there are only a few hundred RCA's in the world and billions of trees. Nothing's wrong with saying what you see.

I always start where netree did--it has stood up until now!
Many if not most trees in the forest started from stump sprouts.

The ideas about CAUTIOUS excavation of decayed matter and boosting root function are always good.

 

[xtremetrees]

just phrase it cautiously and don't make broad judgments

Thank you sir.
I'll be looking to do alot of consulting this summer after i get certified. Alot of it is about wording. Because what I will be saying will have some weight to it. I need more help in this area.

Alot of the time I think I am diagnosing symptomsand not the actual disease or cause, when years later the bulldozier has gone. This tree has (Dozier blight) lol

Ill try and post pics of sic trees in the future and see what yall think is wrong with them. Of course witha good history of them.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Along with the mulching I woul suggest adding some more ferns and whatnot to inhibit foot traffic from the rootplate.

I ouls want a better look at the roots then what I see in the picture.

Putting a prope high on the stem to do a pull test to watch how the root plate behaves is allways good. Not just foe a preclimb evaluation, but for non invasive risk assesment.

The wound/ decay area does not look too bad from here in Milwaukee, is that the only place where the cylinder is compromised to the eye?

load reduction on the compression side is good on a case by case basis

 

[Guy Meilleur]

Originally posted by xtremetrees
I'll be looking to do alot of consulting this summer after i get certified. Alot of it is about wording. Because what I will be saying will have some weight to it. I need more help in this area.

If you're serious about this, the ASCA Academy is where you want to be.
Yes certification makes you more of an authority in the eyes of the public. But it takes a lot of experience and study to find the causes and not just the symptoms. Meanwhile, cya. cya.

 

[ORclimber]

Originally posted by John Paul Sanborn
is that the only place where the cylinder is compromised to the eye?

Yes. No cracks or conks. I believe this is second growth and the decay is an old stump. The stand was never thinned and the overstory trees are over 100' tall. The understory trees have very little taper and sparse foliage. The tree in question was an understory tree that is now growing toward the light where the house sits. 80% of this trees growth is on the house side of the tree where it leans. But honestly there isn't a whole lot of green on it, thinning wouldn't take much leverage off. No doubt the roots are connected to the surrounding trees. I'd guess the house was built in the '80's.

Pre-climb inspection? Knew it would hold me. It survived the ice. I knocked over a couple others on the property that the ice broke the tops out at 60'.

There is Phaeolus schweinitzii on the property, a dead understory tree on the other side of the house had conks on it.

Soil? Guess I should get a soil survey. That property is rural enough that it would actually be accurate.

Here's a picture of the tree. It's between the Double top Doug-fir in the center of the picture and the tall scraggly grand to the left.

 

[Curtis James]

The lean you are describing is from phototropism. The tree growing towards the light. So this tree is a sapling that grew out of an old stump not the old stump shooting up after being cut down. Right?

 

[xtremetrees]

I believe curtis knows the sound of one hand clapping.
So many variables in dealing with trees
Yep Id say photoropism, and that its probably gonna have to fight hard to get big unless you remove the adjacent ones exposing it to major photosynthsis growth potential. If you did that maybe a gibberlin growth inhibitor. errr something like that.

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

Aren't most conifers geotropic?
The lean in the tree looks more like an injury at some time years ago. Perhaps when the house was built, a piece of equipment rammed it. It looks like it was bent over and had a buttress root broken, then was left to recover on it's own.
As we know, when there is a large trunk injury, the tree will respond by compartmentalizzing the entire diameter of the trunk.
This would explain the decaying area and the bend near the base of a geotropic tree.

 

[Guy Meilleur]

The woundwood outside the cavity looks good. I'd scoop out the rot enough to gauge the % of holding wood. If you're going to use a strength loss formula, keep in mind that woundwood can be 40% stronger than regular wood. Improve soil as others have said.

"Bark tracing"?!? Nonono, that's only for fresh wounds with jagged edges. NO reason to come close to aCODIT boundary on this tree.
Whether the bend and lean is form geo- or photo- or bulldozer tropism, it's the amount of holding wood that's key. In the last pic it seemed to have a double fork up high--was that the one?

On southern pines those forks can split--did you see the angle up close when you cleaned the crown?

 

[ORclimber]

Guy, The tree in question is the shorter one just to the left of the double topped one. Whatever caused two tops in that tree is completely healed over. It is a nice wide connection, no included bark there.

Mike, You may be right. But, the decay looks older than the tree without digging. Daylight can be seen through the rot. I'll bet the majority of the decay could be pried out of the cavity with a crowbar.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

I would definatley do a pull test to see how stable the roots are then. Any soil heaving and recomend removal.

if there is decay through the basal area, and multiple cavites (see light through it), it sounds like it would not be too stable.

In this type of situation i ask the client to concider what their level of risk tolerance is. There is medium to high risk of failur compaired to a perfect tree. Target value is high since it is in a yard 50 ft tall.

Wjat would removal do to the other trees in the stand?

 

[ORclimber]

Originally posted by John Paul Sanborn

Wjat would removal do to the other trees in the stand?

The roots are likely grafted to the other Doug-firs to either side. So, I guess the stump could provide an infection point to the neighboring trees. This tree may be moving nutrients to the surrounding trees. I have seen Doug-fir stumps completely healed over. Being < half the size of the others, I doubt its removal would make windthrow much more likely for the remaining trees.