When is enough enough?

[treeclimber165]

I came down out of a half-finished tree and packed my gear today. Big job, 52 huge oaks to deadwood and de-moss. The boss and I had discussed the job beforehand, and he wanted me to do these trees right, not like the drunk hacks that had done them for the previous 8 years. 1 1/2 hours into the first tree, the property manager comes over to talk with my boss. He says that ALL of the suckers need to come out of the tree, or else they can't tell if the tree has been trimmed.

My boss had been telling me I needed to do 7 trees a day and I was already a little pissed about that. Barely enough time to strip out the suckers and ignore the outer half of the limbs. But I don't want to do that type of work. Well, being told 1 1/2 hours into a tree to forget about proper tree care and just strip the suckers was too much. I have worked for this guy since March, and he is part of the problem, not part of the solution. We have yet to do a job with enough money on it to do a proper trim, and I no longer want to be associated with a hack. He denies being a hack, but EVERY job is hack work.

Oh, the job was for Jeno Palluchi, the Pizza Roll frozen food guy. But Don bid $5000 for 52 HUGE oak trims. He's just a lowballing hack, I had enough.

 

[Tim Gardner]

Brian,

Sorry to hear about you walking away from your job but I am glad that you stood up for yourself and your beliefs.

What ARE we supposed to do? We are taught the standard way to prune but there are bosses and clients out there that want to “hack” prune a tree. How can we prune these trees correctly and still work for someone to make a living? The guy I climb for has questionable pruning techniques and I really hate doing work like that but I need to feed myself. I am unable to purchase the A300 right now but I would like to have a copy to show him the proper pruning methods. But what about the client? If you don’t prune the way they want, they will hire someone else that will.

 

[Dave]

Sounds like you did the right thing, Brian. Underbid from the getgo and now you have to throw proper pruning technique out the window? If enough guys felt like you do the whole business of arborculture will improve.

 

[spreaderman]

changing jobs

I left a job that I had for 8 years this May, the boss hired a scooby dum for a dollar a day difference than me .10 cents an hour less than me..... when I asked about it he said I was waaaaaaaaaaay ahead of him and he wouldn't do me like that I said you can have your new dummy and my part of it to .....I am happier and better off without it.....If you can come to Alabama there are always openings for good climbers here

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Good show sticking to your guns buddy.

Now you got yourself back into shape, you will be able to find a company that appreciates toyr assets, not just your sweat.

Just open up the phone book and start calling around.

 

[Stumper]

Tim, I don't know the magic formula for gaining customers' confidence (but being both imformed and articulate helps). Most of my customers trust me-I appreciate comments like "do as you think best we know YOU will do it right.". I do try to discuss options and make reccomendations based on what the customer is hoping to accomplish. When I explain in a few sentences why "Topping" will prove counterproductive 95% accept what I say and thank me for explaining. Many of my customers already have some understanding of what is proper.-Those folks are easy to work for.

 

[murphy4trees]

enough is too much

That's the good thing about treework. Pull out the yellow pages and make calls on Saturday and you start work on Monday morning. Generally, lowballers who don't know enough to charge good money for the work, don't take care of their employees. Sounds like you could freelance... work 2 days freelance and make the same as 5 for the hack..
On the other hand I understand the need to balance ideal pruning practices with productivity. Sometimes that's required, and I'll be the one to make that call. I won't let a homeowner or groundskeeper tell me how or when to prune trees. I Am the expert. And of course I listen to their concerns and thoughts and often give them a choice of options...lots of judgement calls. So if this guy needed proof for his boss that the treees had been pruned, digital stills of before and afters might have worked.

NO MATTER WHAT less than $100/tree for pruning big oaks is way off the mark... Doesn't matter if it's 1000 trees. Sounds like your former boss could use the crash course in tree estimating referred to in another thread. If you post his name and email address we could all send him some free "advice".

Have a great week. I Am confident something very good will come of this.
God Bless All,
Daniel

 

[Toddppm]

???? straight Brian!
That might wake your ex-boss up a little.
So did you find a job already? Are you stuck on staying in Orlando? Hear theres a guy on the west side that has a very upstanding biz looking for a top climber

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

This site is a proffesional network, there are several guys in FLA here. Start farming yourself out to them. Work with one fro a few days, then go home, hook up with Kenny for a few more, then help Big Hurt with his climbing skills...

(Almaost made a Forrest comment, and I've been jumping oa others for that)

 

[budroe69moni]

fight the good fight!!!!!

hey 165,
things happen for a reason!!!!
w/ all of your skills and connections,
you should have no problems .
you've got the skills to pay the bills!!!!
budroe
p.s. good things happen to good people!

 

[treeclimber165]

Thanks

Thank you all for your words of encouragement. I was pulling out of Vermeer today, picked up the folding handsaw I ordered last week and my phone rang. I now have a couple trims for tomorrow and a large removal to climb next week. I'm getting referrals from my stump guy who heard through the grapevine that I wasn't working for Don, and I haven't talked to my stump guy in months! Hopefully I can stay busy enough to keep all my bills paid.

Thanks again for helping me become a better climber and arborist. :angel:

 

[Jumper]

ENUFF

You have my understanding-it is very frustrating to work for someone that causes you stress, everyday, all day, and I have walked away from my share of jobs in the past year. When I am earning $70k a year I might put up with a little more BS, but at the peanuts I get right now, you had better be very nice to me! I put up with 22 years of BS in the Army and be ????ed if I will do the same now.

Good luck with the search.

 

[treeclimber165]

Update

For those who are interested:
I'm climbing for 2-3 guys right now, nothing super-steady yet. Today I was at Vermeer spending money I don't have for a bull rope and pulley for some big removals tomorrow and next week. Met a guy there who took my card and promised me some work, after we talked a bit about his business and my qualifications. I was glad that he asked if I climbed without gaffs. Things are picking up, but I wished I had more than 2 days work committed.

Talked with Don last night, first time we spoke since I walked. No hard feelings, but we agreed that it wasn't best for me to work with his crew full time. Might still do occassional work for him, though.

It could be worse. A year ago this time I was not climbing at all and looking for a new career. Sure glad I came back to the trees. :angel:

 

[Toddppm]

Sounds like soon you'll have more work than you can handle and will be picking and choosing who YOU want to work for .

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

And raising your rates, so you dont have to bust your but every stinkin day.

Go bikin on wednesdays.

 

[treeclimber165]

picture

Here's a pic of part of the property. Don expected me to do 7 of these trees per day, but 'do them right'. Just so long as I stripped every sucker, I could deadwood the tips to my heart's content.

 

[Jock]

Hi Treeclimber, what does your boss do? does he or has he ever climbed?, he seems like what we call here a "cowboy" he's buying work, he obviously knows nothing about, if your'e any good give me a call, I'm paying £90.00 per day to deadwood and raise crowns on park trees......Jock

 

[Jock]

Hey Spreaderman.....coming to Alabama, end of October, whats the chances of meeting up ..checking out the tecniques there?..my brother stays in Huntsville, have a hire car for 3 weeks, could even bring a harness.....? ....Jock

 

[spreaderman]

hooking up

I am 1 hour due west of Huntsville so not far for you to drive ....and while your in the area you might check and see if WOLF RIVER MIKE is idling his saw and has some time also for some southern hospitality....... just post or e-mail when you will be in the area...... thanks

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Hey Jock, will you be up in Milwaukee for the TCI convention Nov 7-9?