When is it appropriate to NOT use a felling notch?

[magnus]

Now back to Magnus' serious problem - dangerous trees (NOT SHRUBBERY) that have to come down - no reliable removal services available - no experience with this kind of takedown. It would be horrible to read about it on the injury forum.

He's come here for help! Someone's got to have some hard useable SAFE solution to his dilemma without ruining his property or himself - without flying over there to help him ... RIGHT?

anyone want to fly out for a working vacation? they can camp at my house! good food and cheap wine...

looking forward to the serious advice.
trust me if i could hire someone else i would. there is nobody locally to help...and to seriously pay someone to fly here would bankrupt me.

 

[Blakesmaster]

anyone want to fly out for a working vacation? they can camp at my house! good food and cheap wine...

Looks like a beautiful place. I'd consider it if I wasn't so busy right now. Could use a vacation and a sunny beach would more than fill the ticket. Someone's gotta take you up on this offer.

 

[Blakesmaster]

Wonder what a round trip ticket would cost from the states...

 

[pdqdl]

anyone want to fly out for a working vacation? they can camp at my house! good food and cheap wine...

looking forward to the serious advice.
trust me if i could hire someone else i would. there is nobody locally to help...and to seriously pay someone to fly here would bankrupt me.

I looked up Flores, Portugal (in the Azores) on Google Earth. Tiny little spot, it looks like a great place to live. The image quality is excellent, tell us where you are at! We might even be able to see the trees, the cliff, and your house.

 

[magnus]

39°27'58.28"N
31° 9'23.59"W


come on over!!

 

[pdqdl]

Something seems to be wrong. I dialed in your lat & long, and I am on a hillside, but I don't see any house. From where I am looking, I could cut down everything on the hillside and miss you by 1/4 mile. Or is everything hiding under the trees?

The big tree at the top of the hill above the marker has a spread of 75'x100'. That is a pretty good sized tree.

Here is my view from Google Earth:

Maybe I am just close to where you are located. This view is about 3/4 Km straight west of the red dot that marks Fazenda De Santa Cruz

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Wonder what a round trip ticket would cost from the states...

Could not find a flight to Flores, but nonstop ORD to Madrid is >$700

Nothing nonstop to Lisboa (When I was with LF6F the Polizi there when on strike and beat the crap out of anyone they saw. A few buddies of mine included. I was lucky, being detatched for ag. washdowns in Rota, Sp.) second leg to LIS adds another $500+ to any round trip from anywhere.

There must be only weekly flights to the island.

 

[Plasmech]

Is it just me or did the original post disappear?

 

[SINGLE-JACK]

Is it just me or did the original post disappear?

It's not you, Plas (well, maybe it is, lol). Anyway, it's really confusing. I'll recap as best as I can.

Magnus' OP started the original thread at 10-01-2009, 10:45 AM ; titled "When is it appropriate to NOT use a felling notch?" over on Arborist 101: (it's still there)

http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?p=1746669#post1746669

Then at 10-01-2009, 01:01 PM, TDunk's OP started this thread, with the exact same title here on Commercial Tree Care and Climbing

People continued to post to both threads for a while, even Magnus posted his pix on both threads. Then the Arborist101 thread seemed to fade away and this thread took control. I have no clue why it happened this way - maybe the mods did some manipulations or there was a bug or TDunk could have hit "Start new thread" instead of "Post reply". Your guess is as good as mine.


Jack

ANY WAY, BACK TO THE ACTION!!! I'M ANXIOUS TO SEE WHO'S GOING TO FLY OVER THERE AND HELP MAGNUS - THAT'D BE WAY COOL!!!
Google shows a pretty good size airstrip on the island.

 

[SINGLE-JACK]

...

I'M ANXIOUS TO SEE WHO'S GOING TO FLY OVER THERE AND HELP MAGNUS - THAT'D BE WAY COOL!!!
Google shows a pretty good size airstrip on the island.

COME ON ... Who's got a plane?
:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:

 

[pdqdl]

No doubt! I would love to go, but I'm afraid the only Eucalyptus that I have ever dropped have been in the back of my throat. I think that makes me unqualified, despite all my Midwest-U.S.A. experience.

I suspect these trees aren't really that tough, though. The pics don't look bad.

 

[Blakesmaster]

No doubt! I would love to go, but I'm afraid the only Eucalyptus that I have ever dropped have been in the back of my throat. I think that makes me unqualified, despite all my Midwest-U.S.A. experience.

I suspect these trees aren't really that tough, though. The pics don't look bad.

That's the way I see it. There's plenty of guys on this site that could pack a tote full of gear, hop on a plane, and easily bang this out. Especially when you look back to what we used to work with. I've taken down many a tree with spurs, flipline, saddle, and a running rope. Was it pretty, no, but almost any tree can be done with very limited equipment if you know what you're doing. I seriously wish I had the free time and cash, I'd go in a heartbeat.

 

[pdqdl]

I suspect that tiny island is an Atlantic paradise. I am especially attracted to the remote nature of the place, and it is a lot closer than all the Pacific islands that I have been wishing I could go to.

Living under Portuguese rule might have some drawbacks...Tell us what your little island is like, Magnus. There must be some good reasons that a non-portuguese speaking person like yourself would live there.

 

[eljefe]

Re: Felling against lean

Hi, I've come into this kind of late and the threads are kind of hard to follow. But, not withstanding a beautiful island and someone of us on a plane going out to help.

I am thinking the problem is this: Making a face cut in a smallish tree against the lean. Put in the face cut first as is usual. The trees sets back leaning even more. Winches put pressure on the tree to pull it toward the direction of intended fall. This puts alot of pressure at the site of the cut and increases the possibility of a barber chair. Now we do the back cut and it sets back on the saw. More winch pressure and so on.

OK try this: Put the winches in as usual. Then put in the back cut first deep enough to allow the use of wedges. Use plastic or wood wedges. The wedges will keep the kerf open and keep the trunk from setting back. Also driving in the wedges will help the winches with their work. Now put in the face cut. As mentioned by others here I would use a face cut that keeps it on the hinge for as long as possible. Beranek uses the term "ultra wide face" After the face cut is in then insert the saw back into the back cut in front of the wedges and finish cut to the hinge. Keep pounding on the wedges. On small trees the wedges don't have as much leverage but they do have some and will, of course, keep the tree from setting down on the saw. When there is danger of a barber chair I hook a piece of log chain above the cut. Take a wedge and drive it inbetween the chain and the tree to keep it tight if necessary. And most importantly be safe with a good escape route. I read about this method somewhere, but can't quite remember where. I have used it with good success a number of times, as the nicks in my wedges will attest.

I hope that I understood your problem and have given you a safe solution.
Eljefe

p.s. the dratted spell checker dosen't know the work kerf! In an arborist website no less

 

[AshTree]

Bore Cut

You could do it this way, but why not bore cut? Make your notch, bore in to set up your hinge, come back to leave a nice strap and make a snap cut style back cut. Everything is set then you walk over to the winch or 5:1, pull it over with ease. I have done this with the winch on the chipper with a redirect... Worked out great. Hit the rope winch and watch it go...

opcorn:

Ash

www.clearwisdom.net

 

[jomoco]

Thanks for pointing this thread out to me Magnus. I'm rather shocked by the range of advice you've gotten in it both good and bad thus far, particularly from arborists completely unfamiliar with the treacherous hinging characteristics of eucs in general.

Unless a euc is pulled over exactly 180 degrees opposite it's lean, it's not going to hold it's hinge long enough for it to get past it's vertical balance point and fall anywhere near where you want it to at all.

They are one of the most treacherously weak hinge holding species of trees around, their wood grain is so convuluted that the only wood splitters capable of splitting it are the larger models due to their raw HP and shearing ability.

Another important factor in pulling over eucs is finding a bull line tie point in the tree that's centered over your face cut below it, and of sufficient size and strength to withstand the tremendous amount of pulling force exerted on it to pull it up and over center. If for any reason that pulling point fails, you and your house's well being are in serious trouble. If the tree is 30 inches DBH then any tie in wood under 12 inches is getting a bit iffy in a euc.

To gain enough pulling power with your winch to get the tree safely over center will probably require placing a heavy duty steel pulley in the tree at the pull point so you can double the pulling power on your winch.

And for heavens sakes don't do any kind of cutting at all on the tree until after your rigging is set up and you're exerting 2-3K lbs of pulling force on the tree with your winch!

A typical western face cut with about a 60 degree range comprising 1/3rd of the tree's dia is fine, gunned straight at your winch. Your finish cut needs to be at the same heigth as your face cut's apex, and be perfectly parallel to the apex's axis. Leave at least 3-4 inches of hinge on a euc of that size, back your finish cut with wedges. Work in conjunction with your winch operator by either radio or cell phone. At 4 inches of hinge have him pulling for all he's worth, if you see a little movement at the pulling point in the tree in the direction you want, cut a little more in the finish cut to a 3 inch hinge, but no more. Once it's over center and falling, that 3 inch hinge won't hold for long at all, maybe 20-30 degrees past vertical if you're lucky.

So unless you can set up wour winching point exactly 180 degrees off your tree's lean, with enough winch line to pull your compound bull line twice the distance needed to get the tree over center and falling in the right direction?

Don't do it, not with a treacherous euc!

The trees in your pics don't look to me like they're any kind of imminent hazard at all Magnus, so take your sweet time and try to fly in an expert to do the work as barter for free lodging at an exotic island vacation point!

Whatever you do, be careful and have a clear escape route from the base cut in case a rope snaps or any other failure occurs.

Getting a pro in there to do it for you is your very best choice, particularly when your working those treacherous Australian weeds down.

Good luck Magnus!

jomoco