Which furnace is right for me?

[clayh88]

Hi I'm new to the site. been reading a lot of threads and am looking for a little more exact information. What I am looking to do is install an add on wood furnace to my house. Simple I know but I have a lot of questions. here is what I'm looking do to. I have a about a 1600 sq ft ranch style home with a full basement. It is on top of a hill and always seems windy here in northeast Nebraska. House was built in 2001 2x6 walls not a lot of windows. So I assume fairly efficient. Currently has all the ducting installed with current electric furnace located in the center of the house. only upstairs is finished which will be the main area being heated but would like to keep basement warm for now and eventually heat it also when I get it finished. i do have a dorlet legend already installed in the basement if needed but would like to not have to use it anymore. hate carrying wood in to the basement. Here is the kicker. I want to install the new wood burning furnace in my garage which is located at one end of the house. I would like to use the radiant and maybe one vent to heat the garage while in out there working. the garage is about 1200 sq ft and is insulated not as well as the house but it is insulated and finished. I will have to install about 15 feet of duct to reach from where the new stove will be located to where the current duct stops at the end of the house. So thats the basics of what I'm looking to do.. I've looked at us stoves, shelter, dakas , yukons and the dorlet tundra. I like what I've read about the tundra so far because of theprice and efficiency but my biggest want/need is enough heat and burn times around 8 hours. Now for the questions

1. Will the dorlet tundra handle this load or do I need to look at a bigger shelter Yukon or daka?
2. Is the fan big enough to push warm air all the way across the house.
3 Will I get sufficient burn times don't want to have to load whatever furnace I get every 4 hours .
4 Is anyone currently running a setup like this. Does it work of are there problems.
5 Any other stoves you would recommend in the 1500 to 3000 range.?

Any input would be a big help. Don't want to make a $2500 mistake when this doesn't work.

thanks in advance

Clay

 

[flotek]

The fan is more than powerful enough to push air over 3,000 sq feet and it's actually very quiet ..I would assume The burn times are better than the others in the group . Load up with hardwood and 8 hours is child's play ..I've gotten 15 hours before on my drolet . One thing I will caution you on is that due to the 3 cubic foot firebox and it's design it does not put out intense heat like a smoke dragon non EPA furnace does it's a milder heat over a longer period ..Sounds like you need a lot of heat output given the size ,the windy hill and the garage install . It ( tundra) may not be enough to do all you want on the coldest days . Have you looked at the caddy max. ? It's like the drolet ..but larger everything and made by same people . I would not spend big money on a furnace that's not up to date with modern secondary reburn tubes . That would be like buying a new car without power steering or fuel injection

 

[laynes69]

I know it sucks to carry wood into the basement, but that's where you will get the most heat from your woodfurnace. You may find the radiant heat from the furnace door is enough for your basement, while the heat collected from the jacket is placed into the living space above. If heat is needed in the garage, then run a duct there. Since you already have a chimney in the basement, as long as it's the proper size, that saves money also. I don't think at 1600 Sq ft you will have any issues with the tundra, even with the basement footage added. Also may times insurance companies don't like to see a wood burning unit in a garage. How does your stove do now? Burn times are based on heating demand, the smaller the demand the longer the burn. You may be dissapointed going from a epa certified stove to an older design wood furnace.

 

[brenndatomu]

Hi Clay, welcome to AS! Flotek and Laynes make some good points.
1. In most locations, a wood burner in the garage is against code and therefore not approved by ins. co. Plus you would lose all the radiant heat off the furnace to heat your basement (which is considerable BTW). Consider putting a wood chute into your basement, no more carrying wood down the steps.
2. IMO the Yukons are gonna be too big (BTUs) for your application unless your are looking at the smallest one, the Big Jack. I had a BJ, my two cents on it, like the guys mentioned above, go with a unit that has a true secondary burn system. That rules out Daka, Shelter, and US stoves too.
3. I know you have a price range in mind, but consider looking at the Kuuma Vaporfire line http://www.arboristsite.com/community/ads/redirect?bannerId=25&url=http://www.lamppakuuma.com/&skipZone=0 they are a gassification burner, cleaner and more efficient than even a secondary burner. Plus they have a really slick computer controlled "autopilot" control system, they are the cadillacs of wood fired hot air furnaces! But if you want to stick within your budget, the Drolet Heatmax is gonna be hard to beat. You would be happy with it I believe...

What is your heat load like? In other words, what does it take to heat your house now? How much oil, gas, wood, whatever? I wouldn't think a newer 1600 sq ft house with 2x6 walls wouldn't be too hard to heat.

 

[clayh88]

Thanks for the quick replies guys.. Here is a little more info in answer to your questions plus a couple more questions for you guys.. I just moved into this house a few months ago.. The Dorlet legend was already here plus there was a barrel stove in the garage.. The house seems to hold heat well.. It's been in the 30's a few nights and the heat pump only ran on and off.. I hate heat pumps and will share why shortly.. But anyways house seems to be sealed up.. It has gotten cold a few nights and I've fired up the stove but it's a learning curve for me.. I grew up with a 1950 Lennox coal/wood burner dump as much wood in as possible and enjoy walking around the house in your underwear. Thats why I hate heat pumps I was raised on good old wood heat and there is nothing better.. The legend stove I have seems to make good heat but not the best burn times and can't get the heat throughout the house.. Its located right by my stairs and has a small fan on it but it runs all the time and doesn't do much once the stove is down to coals. The big reason I thought about the garage install was because my neighbor told me that's how the house used to be set up and I would really like not having the smoke dust and wood in the house.. But with what you guys have stated it makes more sense to put it in the basement..I really want to go to a furnace so I can get the heat throughout the house. The install would be fairly easy I think..? Here are my questions.. I could reuse the current chimney which is insulated SS 6 inch that runs on the out side of the house.. ? I would have to run the supply pipes up between my floor trusses in order to get the the main hvac duct in the house only about 12 feet away but I think I might have to reduce to 6 inch to make it fit through.. Will that cause problems? I could maybe stay with 8 inch but what kind of clearances do I need. ? Next is the return air.. What is the best way to do this.. I can't get a full sized duct from my current hvac return to the location of the stove. We'll I could but it would be a huge pain. I could run one or two 8 inch lines from it. I also have a outside air kit already installed for legend so I could use that also..then the rest just pull in from the basement..? Those are my options of return air what Is the best way to hook it up..? And I have a walk out basement so getting wood in isn't a big deal at all..

Thanks again for the help..

 

[blades]

solid fuel furnace first ten ft of heat duct requires minimum 2" clearance to combustibles 1" there after, basic code. You want all your heated air to be pulled from the return duct it's easy to move cold air, pita to try and move hot - move the cold hot fills the void automatically. I agree with the tundra, caddy, or Kuma- these units are specific wood fuel units- almost all the others are coal designs that you can inefficiently burn wood in. Garage install unit would need to be a minimum of 4 ft off floor likely some other codes to deal with besides. Basement install are notorious for hard starts from a cold flue- some units have a built in draft inducer- or you need to be able to warm flue to prevent a reverse flow problem- simple as a inlet that a shop vac exhaust can be connected to for a a short time. Basements tend to be a bit on the negative pressure wise.

 

[brenndatomu]

I could reuse the current chimney which is insulated SS 6 inch that runs on the out side of the house.. ?

Should be fine

Next is the return air.. What is the best way to do this.. I can't get a full sized duct from my current hvac return to the location of the stove.

I would try it without return air, see how it does. Lots of people run wood furnaces without them. I didn't run returns when I installed my old Yukon BJ at my sisters place, it works fine as long as the basement door is left open. Just be prepared to run a return if it doesn't work. Having to run duct below the floor joist is pretty common.

first ten ft of heat duct requires minimum 2" clearance to combustibles 1" there after, basic code

Some are as much as 6" for the first 6', Yukons are...

Basement install are notorious for hard starts from a cold flue-

I would say it is more the exception rather than the rule, as long as the stove pipe and chimney is done properly anyways. How tall is your chimney clay?

some units have a built in draft inducer

They do? A wood furnace?...maybe some boilers, I can't think of a wood furnace that comes with one...or, maybe you are referring to a forced air combustion blower?

simple as a inlet that a shop vac exhaust can be connected to for a a short time

Or a propane torch up the flue for a minute...or a wad of flaming newspaper...or a hair dryer. Once your are into full time burning during the winter, this will be a non issue since you won't have to deal with cold starts.

Is this an unfinished basement clay? Unfinished basement stove installs are notorious for not heating well. On the other hand, wood furnaces work fine for this, pump the heat upstairs but the basement gets radiant heat off the firebox and stove pipe. That is usually enough to keep the floors from being so cold, especially with a newer house (it's harder to get the floors warm in those drafty old sandstone farm house basements)

 

[clayh88]

Im not sure how tall the chimney is ill have to see how many sections of insulated pipe I have. My basement is not finished yet it will be someday. Will using outside air help the air from getting so dry in the house or should i just use inside air and run humidifiers?

 

[brenndatomu]

You'll wanna run a humidifier IMO

 

[NSMaple1]

I think your house would need to be pretty tight to necessitate outside air - I leave a basement window located behind my boiler cracked just a little tiny bit for my boiler. And winter air is usually too dry - which is why the need for a humidifier usually goes up with a looser house.

If you dry your clothes inside on a rack as much as you can, duct your dryer outlet to the basement using a good lint filter, don't turn on your bathroom vents unless the house humidity is high, and store your wood in the basement, you should find you won't need a humidifier. Using a couple decent humidity monitors is key - example, venting the humidity from a hot shower outside when your overall house humidity is on the low side is counter productive, both in increasing the need for a humidifier, and increasing the heat load on the house by cold outside air coming in through the building envelope to replace the warm air you're sending outside.

 

[brenndatomu]

duct your dryer outlet to the basement using a good lint filter

Just a note of caution with this, doing this is only acceptable if you are using a electric dryer. Doing it with a gas dryer...you will be venting fumes into your house

 

[iowa]

Spend just a little bit more and get a Kuuma Vaporfire! You will be so happy! I love mine!

 

[Whitespider]

Will using outside air help the air from getting so dry in the house or should i just use inside air and run humidifiers?

In Nebraska, binging in outside air will likely make the relative humidity (RH) in your house lower, not higher. Because RH is... well... relative to temperature, cold winter air, even at 100% RH contains very little moisture. For example... if the outside air is 10° with 100% RH, the moisture content is equal to only 8% RH at 75°... Death Valley has higher RH than that during the driest/hottest part of the year (figure an average 115° at 15% RH has a moisture content equal to 50% RH at 75°).

We don't run humidifiers though... we set a couple or three foil pans (small bread pans are perfect) in the heat registers and fill them with water through the grate using a long-necked house plant watering can. During real cold spells they'll go empty as much as three times a day... and, yeah, we vent the electric cloths dryer into the basement for the extra humidity and heat.
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[clayh88]

I like the water pan in the vent idea never thought of that.. and ill look into the dryer vent also.. as far as a little more money for the kuuma its a lot more money. Like $3500 more.. is it that much better..? I just want to heat my house.. for 5 grand I would expect it to heat cool and cook me breakfast.. ? I could buy a tundra for the garage and my house and still not afford the kuuma. But if the benefits are that great I may consider it..

 

[iowa]

You said you're looking to spend 3k? I got the biggest kumma vaporfire 100. Was $4900 shipped to me. The other vaporfire 200 is smaller and costs less. I heat 3000sq ft.

 

[brenndatomu]

If I had the money burning a hole in my pocket I wouldn't hesitate, Kuuma here I come! Until then... I'd order a Tundra/Heatmax if I was doing a new install. Heck, there's no way I'd have my Yukon Husky furnace if I hadn't found a smokin (yeah, I went there ) deal on it used. (they're about $5k new)

 

[Whitespider]

I heat about 1200²/ft of living area 100% with a DAKA 622 located in the basement. The place, built in 1901, is uninsulated and still has the original windows. The basement stays plenty warm with no open vents, just heat radiating from the furnace, flue pipe and metal ducting is enough. I'd be somewhat concerned with the amount of heat loss if it was located in a garage... for sure the basement would be cold. Eight, ten, even twelve hour burn (heating) times with oak are not a problem as long as temperatures stay above 10°-20° depending on wind... but we keep the house 'round 70°, not 85° (65° during sleeping hours). Once temps dip below zero, and the wind is blowin', heating times start droppin' off fast... yeah, on those real nasty nights I'm reloadin' 'round 3:00 AM (but I'm up to pee anyway). On a calm day with sunshine, even with temperatures down in the lower teens, that DAKA is down-rite miserly on fuel consumption. Note; I did upgrade the blower to a large 3-speed furnace blower.

Like laynes69 said, "burn times are based on heating demand"... if'n ya' need more heat, ya' need to burn more wood. It don't matter if the box is a new-fangled design or an old smoke dragon design... if'n ya' wanna' make more horsepower, ya' haf'ta open the throttle.

And, like flotek said, the new-fangled designs do "not put out intense heat like a smoke dragon non EPA furnace does it's a milder heat over a longer period." That's likely not a big issue if your house is tight and well insulated... but when I need heat, I can make the air coming from the vents so hot it's uncomfortable to hold your hand in it. At the same time, it burns more wood to make that kind of heat.

The truth is... any of the furnaces mentioned in this thread (plus several others) would likely get the job done.
But which one is right for you has to be your decision. There's dozens of things to consider... and not just the obvious considerations like burn times, price and ease of installation. I mean, look at it this way... yeah, an extra $3500.oo sounds like a lot (too much for me), but if'n you're driving 50-60 miles round trip for load of firewood, and the extra $3500.oo reduces your wood consumption by even 20% (say that's 3 trips a year, or more depending)... well... figurin' your time, fuel, wear-n-tear on the truck/trailer/equipment... well...

I bought my furnace used, the stove I've got in the shop was given to me (even the flue pipe)... I've got less in the total investment (for two appliances) than many here have in their chimney pipe alone. But if'n you're gonna' buy new... consider everything, choose wisely, get what you'll be happy with... not what someone else is happy with.
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[stihly dan]

Spidey is right, only you will know what is best for you. I went with the Kuuma because I didn't want to, have time to, play with dampers, or sit and wait for the fire to get hot in the morning to hit a switch. I never have enough time in the morning, definitely not a morning person. I liked the fact I could go down to the basement grab some wood, throw it, in shut the door and go to work. The fact that I can do that and not worry about the house getting cold if I work a 12 hour day because I know it will still be heating. I also scrounge my wood so being efficient is also important. The girly wife being able to run it is another plus. Now that I have it I would not trade it for anything else on the market now. But if my situation was different before I bought this, like working from home, or retired, or had it on the main floor I most likely would have gone in another cheaper direction. It was not an easy decision, I was very nervous of it not working out and being out lots of cash. I think there was only 1 member here that had 1 at the time. Thankfully it was a gamble that worked out. And turns out wasn't a gamble at all.

 

[flotek]

I would put a drolet tundra in the basement and call it done yes a bigger kumma is surely a wonderful unit too but about three times as much money if money is there that may be a better option or fit for you . As far as basement installs causing cold start issues in my experience *that has far more to do with what kind of chimney ( insulated or no insulated external or internal ) your using than the location of the furnace itself . And as a side note If you are using good dry hardwood on a tundra your not going to be lighting fires like a traditional furnace anyways . You'd have to be doing something very wrong or gone a full complete day to have no coals to restart . 10 hours burn time is no issue at all . If I load it in the evening before bed I never had to wake up to reload my furnace ever even with slab wood. .. You should never need more than one match all winter unless your leaving for a extended period of time. I was skeptical on my wood savings but it really did match the brochure hype .. Compared to my old non EPA Englander furnace I cut my wood consumption by a solid 30% it really is that much better on wood

 

[Whitespider]

One more thing clayh88, take recommendations and advice from people who live in a different area of the country with a grain of salt. It ain't that their advice is bad, or wrong... but it may be based on the climate they experience. I spend a lot of time in NE Nebraska for work, on average our temperatures here in NE Iowa are somewhat colder than yours. And we have wind here, lots of it... but that Kansas/Nebraska wind is unrelenting, it'll suck the heat out'a even the best insulated house. The coldest I've ever been in my life was on top of a grain silo in that Nebraska wind... I can't even begin to describe how numbing it was. It can't be explained to someone who has never experienced that winter wind howling across the snow-covered prairie... ya' flat haf'ta live it to understand it.
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