Which is preferred knot: Distel or Schwabisch

[NebClimber]

Which knot is preferred for use as the friction knot of a dymanic climbing system: Distel or Schwabisch?

Why?

What length of cord is recommended (length from eye to eye)?

Steven

 

[rumination]

I used to use a distel until a couple of months ago when I switched over to the VT. I preferred it over the swabisch because the biner hangs straight against the climbing line, like a VT, instead of being cranked a little to one side like the swabisch does. I also felt that the distel collapsed a little better than the swabisch making it easier to slack tend. If I recall correctly my cord was 23" from eye to eye for a 4/1 distel, but my memory may be faulty on that one. The length is something you will want to play with a little bit, especially considering that a different amount of wraps may be better for you, depending on your body size, rope type, use of false crotches, etc.

Of course, the VT is superior to both of them, but the distel made a great stepping stone for me, from a blakes to a VT. I am currently using a swabisch on my lanyard, tied directly to the side D, and it seems to be perfect for this application.

In the end it is a matter of personal preference. They are both excellent hitches.

 

[Ax-man]

If I had to choose between the two, I would go with the Distel.

The Schwabisch is fine if your walking around on limbs and tie in with a lanyard to make your cuts. But as soon as you actually put your weight on it, like for decsending, it acts just like any other prussik, grabs to much, then you have loosen up the coils and bridge for it to work smooth. VT is a much better knot.

Larry

 

[NebClimber]

I don't really see the point in "progressing" thru a series of knots, e.g, from taughtline to Blake's hitch to Schwabisch to Distel. So I think I'll just skip the progressions jump to the VT - if someone would be so kind as to show me how to tie it (I'd find out for myself, but I don't recall what "VT" stands for, so I can't run a google search).

Thanks,

Steven

 

[NebClimber]

Thanks Rocky.

 

[matthias]

On Rocky's picture what is the name of the knot that makes the eyes?

 

[OutOnaLimb]

You guys are crazy. The VT, and distal have way to much slop when you are using a minder pulley.!! Tie in with a 14 inch Schwabish and there is almost zero slop. I beg to differ, the Schwabish isone the smoothest descent knot comming down, you only have 4 wraps, plus you can swing out and grab a branch, tie in, work out and then work your way back in using a micro pulley. When your balences way out there, 8 inches is quite a lot of play. Give me a tight Schwabish next to my hip any day.

Kenn :Monkey:

 

[rahtreelimbs]

Call me a curious person of the new. I started on the Blake, went to the Schwabisch/Distel and finally the VT. The VT is tunable, meaning its length combined with the number of wraps and braids makes the VT friction adjustable. Depending on the climbers weight, condition and type of climbing rope this is a cool hitch. I use the VT on my lanyard as well.

Another perk is that tress cords can be made for a couple of dollars using 8mm Sta-Set.

 

[rumination]

Rocky,
I believe that was your old thread that I learned all that from. I am still grateful that you documented your struggle, switching from the tautline/blakes to the distel and finally to the vt. It made it so easy for me. I already had a really good idea of where to start when I made the switch. I am currently using a 3/3 vt in 8mm sta-set, with Rocky's patented switched over braids to avoid hockling while descending. I am very happy with it. However, I may have to bust out one of my old shorter distel cords and try that 4/1, or that 3/2. The best part of this hitch is that its fun to play with.

 

[OutOnaLimb]

But you cant order a VT cord straight from Sherrill with your weight and climgbing technique labeled on it can you? Using a VT you must modify the lengh of the cord to your precise weight. And still you get so much slop, Does any one splice custom VT cords out there????

Kenn

 

[murphy4trees]

KNOT POLICE

OK mr. squirrel, put down that tress cord and step away from the tree...



Actually a double fisherman's is used to tie a slip of on each end of a cord, going around the other end to make a loop....

The knots shown are just plain old fisherman's. They are pretty basic slip knots and quite relaible for tying to a biner....

And I actually did come over here from Treebz originally... And I've heard a certain ITCC champ call that knot a double fishermans, so it's going around...

And then again I could be wrong!

 

[rumination]

In On Rope the knot is called a double overhand, a grapevine, AND...a double fishermans! If it's in On Rope it's good enough for me.

 

[murphy4trees]

What about Ashley?

PS... told you I could be wrong...

 

[murphy4trees]

On ROpe pg 51...
Double overhand bend aka double fisherman's bend shows not the knot in Rock's diagram, but the knot I described abpve, used for tying two ends line together.
ON Rope goes on to say it is a good bend to form an endless loop of rope... particularly when forming prussic slings.. Half of this bend, used as a safety or keeper knot during rescue work, is commonly referred to as a barrell knot or half a double fisherman's knot...


Now why would they call it that? Half a double fisherman's knot... That seems like a few unnecessary sylables there...

 

[Tom Dunlap]

I hope that Rocky can take a breath for a second here and go along for a bit.

Names for knots are like common plant names. Since there isn't a clearing house or registration, names for knots get a little casual.

What arbos call a double fisherman's knot/hitch might go by other names in other rope disciplines. After looking at many knot books and many knot/rope disciplines, it seems [to me] that the most common use for the double fisherman's knot/hitch refers to the part of the rope configuration that makes "crossing round turns with a tuck". When it's used as a termination for a friction hitch it could be more properly be titled a sliding double fisherman's knot/hitch.

Budworth has been raked over the coals for repeating wrong names in many of his books. He's also been accused of repeating wrong information from other books in his books. Just because it's written doesn't make it universally "right".

Since we argue about seal/heal, head/top, false crotch/Friction Saver, it makes perfect sense that we butt heads about knot nomenclature too.

If you want to hear knot geeks Rocky, you should follow the International Guild of Knot Tyers. That organization is as close to a ruling body for knot nomenclature. If all arbos chose to abide by their decision for naming this rope configuration, then we wouldn't have to put up with the arbo geeks of the world.

In the end, it gets down to tomato or tomato, potato or potatoe [for the Quayle folks].

Tom

 

[NebClimber]

Rocky:

Do you tie the VT as shown on the left side of the diagram you posted, or do you tie it as shown on the right hand side?

Steven

 

[John Stewart]

Used both but prefer the Knut!
John

 

[Stumper]

Between Distel and Swabisch I prefer The Distel. And I prefer the name Scaffold knot for 1/2 a dble fisherman's tied on its on standing line to form a loop.I didn't come from the buzz to argue it Brian. Yes,I always know what you mean when you say Dble fisherman's but the standard knot of that name is different so we need different nomenclature. A buntline hitch is a clove hitch tied to the standing line to form a cinched loop-that explains it real well but it isn't proper to call a buntline a clove-that just confuses the poor guy who is trying to figure out what you mean and is flipping through a knot book.:angel:

 

[rumination]

Err...after taking another look at On Rope it looks like I remembered wrong...oops!:blush:

 

[Stumper]

Hey Leon-the longer you live the more often that happens.