Which is preferred knot: Distel or Schwabisch

[Nathan Wreyford]

Originally posted by OutOnaLimb
The VT, and distal have way to much slop when you are using a minder pulley.!!

That should be your first sign you are doing it wrong.

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

Originally posted by TheTreeSpyder

i think that Guy is coming to some realizations and trying to share them and bring others along, not shirking work. One of the better threads i always thought was the epiphany where Brian (aliias Rocky, alias TreeClimber165, alias...)goes to Split-Tails/cords etc. The moment of change is always different, and cataloging that for others to read as they look at, and enter the same gauntlet of learning curve, can show you made it, issues you tumbled with. Rather than, "i jumped across, why not you?" as a constant message.
:alien:

i try to keep track of who i steal pix/ideas from, didn't put person's name on this, but i beleive that i got it from my fellow geeks at TB. The WWW button under Tom's posts is a way to jump there quickly; it will not take you to the World Wide Wrestling as rumored!

i like looking at knots in families of construction, and thereby properties. By any other name, i tie the eye as an anchor to host line itself with tail heading the direction of the line pull, so as to be more secure. An anchor hitch is absolute simplicity and power in strategy; the old worlde depended on it not to lose anchor and drift massive ships of 500 people to their deaths in open sea, in a time before electrcity was harnessed. So, they chose this RoundTurn (always a secure base)sitting on it's own tail to secure. Making the same to self is even more secure i think, strength of fisherman's/barrel would be dictated by the diameter of the mount as the first loaded arc of the line i think.

The Schwab, Distel, VT, Knut etc. (even Blake's, only pulled at one end though) are all similar constructions around a short Frenchy Prusik Coil of 4 (Double RoundTurn), with different finishes.

The Schwab places a reversed half hitch on bottom of stack from top (as to form a 4/1 cow hitch). The Distel, places a half hitch from top to bottom of stack in the same direction as the coils over it (like a 4/1 clove). A VT uses its braids to bend the line previously to feeding the buffered force into the coils. A Knut, continues the coils in the same direction as a Distel, but traps the leg coming of bottom of Frenchy coil; it's half hitch to place under the stack, from the top leg of the stack. The Knut is relatively self tending!

In all cases the Short Frenchy Stack has a buffering strategy of bufferign load force before it; as to keep the hitch in a tamer/more courteus range of proeperties(?) It's 'Power Band' for these functions, i think. Whereby, with less dampening of the force to the frenchy stack it would sieze to the line dysfunctionaly to our purpose. the Blake's sitting on it's own tail, i think imitates double end pulled frenchy, and doesn't let bottom ring seat(?) so carries similar design(?).

i kinda like a VT with a Knut tending ring strategy at base.

 

[Al Smith]

Distel knot

This is purely an observation from an old sailor/rigger/high iron climber.This distel knot,appears to me to be a variation of the classic"triple slidding hitch" often called the prussic knot,and sometimes a double fishermans bend.It differs in the fact that it appears to have 4 up and one down,versus 3 up,3 down in the triple slider,and would appear to be a lot handier.I instructed"marlinspike seamanship" while in the Navy,and rigging and climbing techniques[open steel]for apprenticeship classes,later in life.This is the first I have seen such a knot,thanks for the picture and info. Al

 

[knudeNoggin]

Originally posted by RockyJSquirrel
A double fisherman's. But of course some geek from TB will most likely insist that name is incorrect for whatever reason (as they have in the past), but I don't F'ing care. It's a double fisherman's. It is called a double fisherman's in Jeff Jepson's book Tree Climber's Companion, and also in Sherrill's catalog and on the 'knot t-shirt'.

Well, it's hard to resist this sort of *invitation* to the discussion!
A "Dbl.Fisherman's (knot)" is a rope-to-rope joining knot,
a more secure (and stronger) variant to the (single) Fisherman's Knot.
Why add to the confusion to lazily apply this name to a hitch?
(Do Sherrill & Jepson acknowledge the rope-2-rope knot, perhaps as the "Grapevine"?
That's a well-used name in climbing, caving, & SAR.)

As Tom D. writes, "Just because it's written doesn't make it universally "right".
Indeed, so sorry is the state of knotting literatures that
one might suggest the opposite: it makes it WRONG!
(An egregious problem is that images are plagiarized (errors & all, sometimes w/new ones)
--absolutely amazes me how this continues, but ...)

To Rumination's assertion that _On Rope_ calls THIS hitch a "Grapevine, ...",
I say, LOOK at the knot--they call the BEND that, not the hitch (unless Bruce radically changed
things for the 2nd edition). C'mon, let's
not be blind!

Nor are "the knots shown are just plain old fisherman's", which is either a bend
(joining ropes), and (you'll luv it called
"knot", or a hitch, called (yep) "bend" (aka "Anchor
Bend").
What about Ashley? He has the exact knot as #409, Poacher's Knot;
he has the more secure (add one more wrap) form as #1120, Scaffold Knot,

I think that "Strangle Hitch" works best, here (the Strangle being
this particular form of a Dbl.Overhand, with two free ends--a binder).

I think I've seen "Barrel Knot" (in the Lyon report), but that too
suffers from conflict with prior use (for both the
Grapevine, and the Blood Knot).

.:. It's a HITCH, and Strangle Hitch has no competitors (albeit no direct precedent
--but we can see that precedent can be a mess!)

--knudenoggin

 

[rumination]

Hey man, I already admitted that I was wrong. Quit beatin on me!

 

[NickfromWI]

Originally posted by OutOnaLimb
Does any one splice custom VT cords out there????

Of course!

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

A great knot by any name. Based on a great knot the Anchor Hitch i believe. i like the Anchor to self, but should have a proper name for this great knotting strategy. It can only be a bend if it 'bends' 2 or more lines together i think.

i must admit locally and on board in times of confusion, double fisherman's (i like tripple rings, especially at the cost of about no space, length in small diameter chords) was always most popular. Previous to getting Ashley Book of Knots at Walmart.Com for $46 instead of $75 my lead home knot referance has been Cyrus Day's great "The Art of Knotting and Splicing"; in it the alternate name for an Anchor Bend is a Fisherman's Bend.

But, Tom said it was a Barrel, so i had to stop and think on that. Then in one of the best freebies, especially for climbing specialties i've seen Life on a Line by Dave Merchant a full size book for free download (that in fact Tom had posted years before) that i've learned to respect as some collective authority and a very fine gift and effort from the author. It says Barrel, lending more credence to what was said. i've learned a lot from TB and gotten links like that one, that are about pure gold! Jest cuz ye consider ourselves HighLanders on the rope, doesn't mean we have to be shouting "There can be only One"! Why Not "There can be only Fun" and fly with all you can gather? Just the fact that there is confusion, we all know it now, and might consider that if talking to other people etc.

i'll go along with whatever is decided on the names; i might seem to call out a lot myself, but i'll go with whatever handle you put on it to be set aside and recognized. Y'all should look at that book (and TB excuse me, a party's not getting geared up is not always the host's fault), especially the first sectional download of the 3; it is very clearly put info; a look into another rope world, that we've all ready learned much from (mountain/rescue).

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

This is another free referance book link that was posted on 'the other board' 2 years ago... Industrial Rope Access DownLoad ; with same referance to barrel.

Thought i remebered another one! Really both 'books' are great ; and the price is right enuff fer me!

Edit: Picture changed to prevent confusion; this shows the differance between fisherman's barrel for hitching to carabiner etc. and double fisheman's .

Notice how these knots are calculated not to just statically take a shock, but give dynamic adjustment, on dynamic loading!!! The slight movement, relieving the pressure(?)

Samson Rope's Download Page

 

[OutOnaLimb]

Hey Spider, I have only seen that knot used mid-line, but It looks pretty cool end of line. Im gonna have to break out my 6ft piece of rope and play with that. The only thing I hate about the butterfly is that its a b1tch to untie if you put a lot of pressure on it


Kenn