who dominates this industry?

[D]

I was talking to a guy today that posed an interesting question: Where do you see the arborist industry going? In your opinion, how many Arborists are strickly arborists? In other words, are there a lot of landscapers doing arborist type work? If so, has that trend been growing in recent years?
I personally, when I sold equipment saw the number rise. I think the education on this subject has dropped significantly. Some landscapers know there stuff, but some are just out to make a buck. Arborists arent alone. Some know what there doing (majority) some don't. Are landscapers taking work away from arborists? Is the do-it-all business taking over?

I thought these were very valid and interesting questions and would like some feedback from both sides if possible.
Darin

 

[Deere John]

I am a professional forester, as you know. My training is in the management of trees at the tree stand level. We received little direct training on individual tree maintenance. However, I was interested in urban forestry prior to starting my post-secondary education, and I have continued to educate myself.

In my market, there are three "professional" tree maintenance people. I count myself in the three, though I only do tree work occasionally. The balance that I see are landscapers, lawnservice people, sign installers (with truck) and even roofers and wet basement specialists. The landscapers advertize tree work, the balance are primarily opportunists who will cut or prune when a tree is in the way or they can make a quick buck. I have cleaned up some of the damage they left on people's property, and I suppose they are operating with neither any appreciation, training nor insurance.

WRT your question Darin, we three "pros" have been around for years. No new blood is entering, in fact, I'm back in forestry. More people are out of work, a so called life-time job is not the norm now, so I figure there will be more multi-discipline (to be nice) people doing tree work in the short, 5-10 year term.

In the longer term, I suspect tree-cutting bylaws and our liability/court system will make the use of pros more of a necessity. That would be good for both us and the trees.

Others?

 

[Eric E.]

There is a difference between arborists and tree cutters. Most people in the "tree business" are not arborists. The guy who spikes while pruning, tops trees, flush cuts, etc is not an arborist.
Eric


[Edited by Eric E. on 04-08-2001 at 03:24 PM]

 

[D]

I guess I used arborists as a general term but what I basically mean is are lanscapers or actual tree services doing the majority of the work?

 

[Ray Morneau]

Hey, Darin - Eric - Mr. Deere - et alii:

ARBORIST - what a broad concept. You guys are on the right track ... don't get too narrow in your thinking.

Our industry will be "driven" at several different levels. The "public" will continue to look (for the most part) to the lowest common denominator of the green industry, the startup (the gardener, the chainsaw-n-pickup, the "forester" who worked a summer for Georgia-Pacific ('cuz I can't spell Weyerhauser)).

Yep, don't mean to demean the startup -- I used to be one. We are all in this together ... the startups and the old-timers. (Oh, oh - never thought of myself as an old-timer!)

The gardener/landscapers will continue to plant and prune the most trees -- wrecking their havoc upon them by planting them too deep, over-watering them, and stubbing them back -- maybe even climbing them with gaffs if the specimens get too tall to reach from ladders?!?!?! But they can learn, and some will, and a few will progress.

And, the technical removals (over houses and in postage-stamp backyards) will be performed by "experts" beyond gardeners. The difficult diagnosis, detailed analysis, and problem appraisals will be done by more experienced personnel (if the client can/will pay the fee).

One might say the (over-)mature specimen declining at the hands of the gardener/landscaper would do better under the care of a "real" professional! -- but would it??

The future, as so many generations before us have said -- The future lies in the youth. The sapling. The startup. It is up to us who have been around the block to do what we can to promote and encourage the saplings and the startups with the best support we can provide. That's what will REALLY drive our industry!

(Yeah, just my 2 cents worth.)
[email protected]

 

[Deere John]

I like your thinking Ray - I have always said that it takes a mature customer to allow a business to grow. Otherwise, you are working for the lowest common denominator and you will not generate the profit (as opposed to being cash positive, but that's another story) necessary to allow you to develop your self and service.

I never did very well on the lowest common denominator. I never won one tender offered by public "social" agencies because they had no concept of the skill or overhead involved in running an "apparently" simple business. It got to the point that I would not even submit a bit, because half the time they wanted it done on the cheap, the other half they wanted to get a price so their husband could undercut that tender abit and do the work on the weekend.

My best customers are the three that I still have to this day. One keeps me on a retainer (!) and has been one of my more enjoyable accounts. I guess there will always be the guys scooping the trees on the front lawns for $100 a pop. I don't mind the back yard ones for more reasonable rewards.

 

[Ssouth]

Darin, Hey I saw you post on Lawn Site and thought I would give you some perspective on how my company deals with trees.
For the most part I will only take off small limbs that hang low and get in the way of my mowing services. Having said this I have several accounts in a nice small town (happens to be the oldest town in Alabama and was a town before Alabama was a state). Here they have professional aborist come in and cut old or nuisance limbs once a year. I would imagine some of the trees out there are over 100 yrs. old and I would not dare cut on them. Several of the homes have cables on limbs to swing them away from the home if they do happen to fall. I have had several limbs fall that where bigger than most trees and I have cut them up and hauled them away which is part of my contract with the home owners. Being in the landscaping and lawn maintenance industry I will cut trees down by owners request but will only do so if it's part of a larger job. I feel the "true" aborist have much much much more knowledge than I do and I will let you guys deal with trees and I will cut the grass and do the landscaping. So to answer you question, I will do just about any job except for pruing mature trees and I hope I never have you job. [I'M TOO SCARED OF HEIGHTS]

 

[CSRA Landscaping]

Ditto!

I'm in the same situation as Ssouth, minus the ancient trees. I know virtually nothing about trees. I would, however, enjoy being able to capitalize on the opportunity afforded to me by them and heights do not really bother me. I see several landscapers picking up these jobs, and not a few truck n chainsaw outfits.

 

[kris]

Hello Darin

Thanks for you posting on lawnsite..I will now read here to learn... We use qualified subs to help us out..possibly some day we will have our own division. For now we are quite happy with the way it is..we send them work and they do the same... Good luck in 2001

 

[jefflovstrom]

I was talking to a guy today that posed an interesting question: Where do you see the arborist industry going? In your opinion, how many Arborists are strickly arborists? In other words, are there a lot of landscapers doing arborist type work? If so, has that trend been growing in recent years?
I personally, when I sold equipment saw the number rise. I think the education on this subject has dropped significantly. Some landscapers know there stuff, but some are just out to make a buck. Arborists arent alone. Some know what there doing (majority) some don't. Are landscapers taking work away from arborists? Is the do-it-all business taking over?

I thought these were very valid and interesting questions and would like some feedback from both sides if possible.
Darin

I would like to bring this up again!
Jeff

 

[jefflovstrom]

Has regulations changed the way things were back when this was first posted?
Jeff

 

[limbwalker54]

Just Do It RIGHT!

Long story short.....some of you know the detail in how I came into the tree care industry.....but in a nutshell, after my childhood lawn/landscape business progressed, I developed a love for trees more than anything. I had pursued education to better myself in the landscape field (Landscape Architecture/Horticulture education). But when I realized I loved trees more than taking care of properties or designing and building landscapes, I slowly began to pursue education in the arboriculture field. I was taken under another arborists "wing" for four years, learning proper tree care, climbing, rigging, plant health care. We did everything from root collar excavations to removals over 33KV (he is line clearance certified). I always believed that if you are going to earn money in a field, you BETTER KNOW THAT FIELD and RESPECT THOSE WHO KNOW THEIR STUFF IN THAT FIELD! The green industry in general has a tendency to attract those who wish to just capitalize on the lack of the general public's knowledge as to the correct methods to design, build, maintain any landscape or urban forest.......
It is very sad.

When I learned to cut grass....I was eight....I started my business with a nice Lawnboy that I fixed up.... I didn't cut hedges, I didn't mulch, I didn't do anything except cut grass...my grandfather trained me to do this correctly.

When he thought I was ready, he taught me how to properly prune shrubs and small trees (with my felco #7's and loppers, and a handsaw). He taught me the difference between shearing and proper pruning.....

The main thing I learned back then was to do it right, and if you didn't know what you were doing....research it, learn from someone how to do it right, then pursue it.

So many times I look at the "landscapers" in my area and wonder if they even know how a blade of grass grows! Do they know how to plant a tree or bush without burying the root collar? Do they know what a root collar is???

I wonder this of the many "tree guys" in the area too...with all of the topping, and the bad cuts, and the over elevation, and the notion that "thinning" means stripping out the interior branches on a tree?? (This of course is NOT how to thin....)

I don't mean to rant, but there are a lot of good tree services in my area that employ proper arboricultural techniques, and are educated.
We are one of them.
If someone asks me to top a tree....I explain why its bad. I educate them. If they don't take my advice, then someone else who is a "tree service" gets the job.....
And that's fine.
Anyone who seeks advice from us will not hear bull**** If we don't know the answer, we research it and find it....not make something up....

I am certain that if the true arborists continue to educate the public one person at a time, one tree at a time, that the industry will progress in a positive manner.
We are arborists. We continually pursue education to advance ourselves in the industry, as well as contribute our findings TO the industry.
By doing this, we earn money while caring for one of the worlds greatest assets: Trees.

If a guy buys a welder and sticks stuff together long enough for the customer to pay him...does that make him a welder????

If you throw a walk behind in your station wagon...are you a landscaper?

You should not be allowed to mulch if you do not know the purpose of mulching......

I could go on and on....

I don't mind anyone who starts out with small equipment. But for goodness sake....pick up a book before you cut that limb.....know why it is good to bisect the branch bark collar and ridge.....its not just because "the water runs off...."


-My fourteen cents......

 

[jefflovstrom]

Wow! Feel the passion!
Jeff

 

[D]

WOW, got two 10 year old posts brought back to life today.

 

[jefflovstrom]

WOW, got two 10 year old posts brought back to life today.

I think it is a pertinent question still.
Jeff
Starting with a company that doesn't trim above 14 feet or a company that believes in an arborist taking over structure pruning.
Jeff

 

[jefflovstrom]

WOW, got two 10 year old posts brought back to life today.

You used to be more inter-active and ask great questions. Just saying.
Jeff

 

[D]

Wouldn't be the first time.

 

[D]

You used to be more inter-active and ask great questions. Just saying.
Jeff

I used to be single and have no kids too!!!

 

[jefflovstrom]

I used to be single and have no kids too!!!

ARG! You got me there!
Jeff

 

[D]

Well at least I didn't have kids....I have been married for 13 years....you got me back.