Who is running .404 on what and why?

[Chopwood]

Elaborarate.:hmm3grin2orange: A person asked a question and received an answer that you disagree with and yet, you disagree for no particular reason. Are you a politician? Perhaps your typing finger broke?

If a saw has the power to pull both, 3/8 will be faster and smoother. .404 chain does not have a taller tooth, just longer (I'm still waiting to see the new Stihl 46RST .404 chain). So, when running 3/8, you have more teeth in the wood at one time. Also, the narrower kerf of 3/8 means less power needed to pull that tooth through the wood. If the thinking that bigger teeth are better, we would still be running 1/2" chain. Was that political enough for you? These are my own findings and opinions through 15 years of wood cutting and racing. BTW, I run 3/8 .050 on an alcohol/nitromethane fueled 3120 husky.

 

[B_Turner]

I struggled with whether to run .404 on my 42 inch bar or if I get a longer bar, mainly to get the lower gearing.

Nowadays for me the decision is clear to stay with 3/8 because for .404 I have to change my square grinder setup a little and dont' want to bother.

The square grind cuts enough more efficient that with 3/8 I have no problem pulling the 42 inch with either my 066 or 395. Wouldn't want to do it all day every day, but the 36 incher with a really sharp chain 3/8 is no problem.

And I've never broken a chain to date on any saw, so for now I stick with 3/8.

 

[rickyrooster]

404

The older saws had less rpm and relied on a ton of torque. I think that the 404 chain being larger could handle more torque with out breaking and this is why it was used on the larger older saws. My 075 ave. Stihl has a 25" bar with a 404, .063 chain and I think it is a good setup for it. But thats just how I feel.opcorn:

 

[Tzed250]

me too

.404 on my SP125C

 

[oldsaw]

I use .404 on my largest saws because of .404's ability to keep an edge longer when ground cutting stumps or hitting tramp metal in trees.

Plus I'm sitting on a lot of loops of .404.

You are "invested" in .404 as I'm "invested" in 3/8. I've always considered it something for the big softwood boys.

Mark

 

[Frank Boyer]

I just got a 084 that has 404. So far my 460 is out cutting it on 24 to 34 inch Tan Oak. I have reset the raker depth, contour and resharpened the chain. I used a Maxx grinder to sharpen the chain and set the rakers. It has a 25 inch bar and the chain is about ready for replacement.

 

[catskinr]

.404

.404 works well on my BP-1. The gear reduction makes it torquey enough to handle it. Besides, I'd have to do a bunch of work to come up with a sprocket for 3/8. Like someone else said, I do like the way .404 is easy to sharpen.

 

[gatkeper1]

Both my Mac SP125C and SP125 have 404 chain. Bought both that way and since bars are not easy to come by they will stay that way.
My 394 had 404 but that now carries 3/8 chain so I can swap bar/chain combos between the Huskys

 

[oldsaw]

Both my Mac SP125C and SP125 have 404 chain. Bought both that way and since bars are not easy to come by they will stay that way.
My 394 had 404 but that now carries 3/8 chain so I can swap bar/chain combos between the Huskys

Yes, practicality wins. I also got an adaptor from Cannon that lets me run my Stihl bars on my Husky. Full big saw interchangability.

Mark

 

[Bob Wright]

I would think that 3/8 would cut faster since it doesn't take such a big bite. Perhaps one of you could explain where I err in my logic.

I think you are right. We were selling some Echo 900's 20 years ago and they came with .404 chain and just wouldn't pull thru the eastern hardwoods so we switched them over to 72 LP 3/8 and sold them all. I am running 72 also on my Echo 1001VL which has plenty of power @ 6 cubes....Bob

 

[Justsaws]

If a saw has the power to pull both, 3/8 will be faster and smoother. .404 chain does not have a taller tooth, just longer (I'm still waiting to see the new Stihl 46RST .404 chain). So, when running 3/8, you have more teeth in the wood at one time. Also, the narrower kerf of 3/8 means less power needed to pull that tooth through the wood. If the thinking that bigger teeth are better, we would still be running 1/2" chain. Was that political enough for you? These are my own findings and opinions through 15 years of wood cutting and racing. BTW, I run 3/8 .050 on an alcohol/nitromethane fueled 3120 husky.

Excellent. Thanks. Sorry for the poking just wanted a complete answer.

 

[Justsaws]

It would seem that practicality is winning hands down. If cost, durability, and ease of swapping were all equal it does not seem as though .404 would have many fans at all. No one seems to have a must have preference for it.

Since the cutter heights are the same does anyone feel that they get much more use out of the longer cutters in a loop of .404 versus 3/8?

 

[hoss]

H-mmmmmmm, no 046s, no 372s. I think that the answers and opinions indicate what I would expect to find. There are not many 880 or 3120s around here. I have only seen two 084s, neither of which were for sale . I have never seen a 3120 around here.

Hoss's pl6 is one of the smaller saws listed with .404 on it.

My guess would be that the average person wants a pitch that they can buy from Lowe's or does not know there is anything bigger.

Opinions on cost between running .404 versus 3/8? It is considerably more expensive to buy a 20" loop of .404 here at certain shops.

I am editing this to clarify "certain" to not being saw brand specific. Example, one Stihl dealer sells .404 much more expensively than the other Stihl dealer. Both selling the same Stihl chain. Both Carlton dealers sell it for different prices as well.

The pl6 is about 94cc and rated for a 41" bar. It has no trouble with the 25incher that I currently run with .404 chisel. Not trying to be an a$$ but 94cc seems purty big to me.

 

[046]

thanks for the info!

based upon feedback so far.... seems there's a spit difference in cutting. with .404 being a bit tougher and 3/8 being a bit smoother.

probably will stick with 3/8 .50 later on when I get an 084. less chain types to support the better.

 

[Locoweed]

More Questions

My 066 came with a 32" bar with .404 on which I promptly changed to a 3/8 32" bar I had. ( For commonality) Therefore, I have not sharpened the .404, but do not see any obvious reason why the bigger chain should be easier to sharpen or why it should retain a sharp edge any better when used in dirty environments or hitting a piece of metal.

What is the justification for these comments?

 

[Justsaws]

The pl6 is about 94cc and rated for a 41" bar. It has no trouble with the 25incher that I currently run with .404 chisel. Not trying to be an a$$ but 94cc seems purty big to me.

Whoops, I was thinking that it was 60cc. Sorry.

 

[Justsaws]

My 066 came with a 32" bar with .404 on which I promptly changed to a 3/8 32" bar I had. ( For commonality) Therefore, I have not sharpened the .404, but do not see any obvious reason why the bigger chain should be easier to sharpen or why it should retain a sharp edge any better when used in dirty environments or hitting a piece of metal.

What is the justification for these comments?

I find .404 easier to file than 3/8, certainly than .325. My guess is I can see it and hold it better. I would think that this is largely an operator issue since I prefer to file 1/2. I consistently bend the file for 1/4.

Durability wise, my .404 chipper seems to stay sharp for more cuts though the old dead locust than my 3/8 chipper. The 3/8 started to curl down the edge about 10 cuts where as the .404 usually about 13 or 14. Ten cuts and time to file or 13 or 14 cuts time to file. Cursed old locust trees aplenty.

The .404 vibrates more on the Mac 300 chassis. Both are old rolls of the same brand of chain. Both rolls are about gone. The 300 that I set up for my father had 3/8 semi-chisel on it because of the smoothness.

 

[Marco]

I am running Oregon 27a on a P51 Pioneer with a 32" bar. It's a skip sequence with small radius cutters, the old boy seemed to struggle with full comp. It serves my purpose for large, dead, sandy fencerow oaks. Got the .404 bars on closeout real cheap, had the P51 that they would fit. 3/8's may cut faster, but it would be real annoying to have to stop and sharpen before the backcut.

 

[Rleonard]

.404/36" bar on the 880, .375 on the 066 and 046

Bob

 

[arnbobold]

I am running .404, 63g on my old Jonsereds 111S. Why, because thats what came on it new. I did give some thought on switching to 3/8 chain, but didn't.
Bob