Who uses a Pantin?

[tree md]

I'm looking into getting a tree frog system and I'm trying to decide if it's for me or not. I guess I'm just going to have to bite the bullet and buy one to satisfy my own curiosity. I have to admit I am not big on mechanical devices and do not have a lot of experience with them. I bought hand and foot ascenders a couple of years ago and have played with them a little but have yet to use them in a work situation.

Anyway, I have been reading about the Pantin that is incorporated into the tree frog system and it occurred to me that it would probably be reasonable to use it in ddrt as well as srt. I have read a lot about guys using one in srt setups but haven't read anything about someone using it ddrt, although the illustration in the Sherrill catalog shows the guy climbing ddrt with one. I have also read that they can be a little difficult to master. The vids I have watched of them being used in srt makes it looks effortless. When compared to watching someone footlock on ddrt it looks so much more effecient. I would feel a lot better about ponying up the bucks for the frog system if I thought I could use some of the stuff in applications other than srt.

Also, how do you pronounce it?

Comments?

 

[Tree Pig]

I was debating trying a pantin, drt I do a lot of hand over hand and I was thinking the pantin may work for tending the slack instead of having to stop and pull it out but I am not sure if will work with just the weight of the rope Srt the tale end is secure so it will run through the pantin.

 

[canopyboy]

I use a pantin with a drt split tail and VT setup. I never got that good at the secured footlock, and the pantin was easy and smooth. The first 5 feet or so you have to work the rope through a bit. After that the weight of the line starts to pull it through. With a micro pulley it tends slack wonderfully.

 

[treemandan]

A nice peice they are and NO, no one knows how to pronounce any of the stuff Petzl has, I don't think you are supposed to.

 

[Tree Pig]

I use a pantin with a drt split tail and VT setup. I never got that good at the secured footlock, and the pantin was easy and smooth. The first 5 feet or so you have to work the rope through a bit. After that the weight of the line starts to pull it through. With a micro pulley it tends slack wonderfully.

awesome thats exactly what I wanted to know, looks like I am stopping at arbor supply this afternoon

 

[canopyboy]

and NO, no one knows how to pronounce any of the stuff Petzl has, I don't think you are supposed to.

:agree2: +1

 

[tree md]

Man do I feel like a moron.

I got my old CMI ascender out and started checking it out. I figured out that you can attach it midline which I didn't think you could. When I first got it I was working with another climber who told me you could not attach it midline (after I had already bought the thing). I had him with me when I tried it out and he showed me how to put it on the rope. Since he claimed to know what he was doing I never questioned what he said. Since I really didn't know what I was doing and didn't trust mechanicals very much I put it away. Goes to show you how much I know about ascenders.

Anyway, I got it out and it was a little rusted where it had gotten wet sometime in storage. I cleaned it with some gun oil and wiped it down real good and it works like a champ. Only thing is it is a left foot ascender. I have bigger muscles in my right leg but I can still get up the rope on it relatively well. It's easier than footlocking for me. I have an old foot injury where I fractured my heel and footlocking makes my foot hurt. It beats the heck out of hip thrusting.

To tell the truth, most of my prunes around here consist of deadwooding and most of the trees around here have a low canopy. Sure there are the large Pecans and Oaks but for your average tree around here it is no problem to get to the first limb and take off from there. I am just kind of playing with the ascenders right now but I do have some large Oaks to deadwood in the future and I'm going to have to ascend around 60' without spurs. It is a biotch to get that high hip thrusting and foot locking hurts for me so I am checking out new (to me) approaches.

I just ordered On Rope and plan to study that before I incorporate my hand ascender. I want to make sure I back it up properly before I put myself out there with it. I climbed with it (low and slow) a couple of times before and backed it up with a prussic but I'm not sure that it was correct. For right now I am just ascending with the foot ascender and advancing my VT (Ddrt). I only saw a climber climb on ascenders one time before and there's only so much you can learn on the web. Anyway, I got the new school bug. I'm still thinking about ordering a tree frog setup.

 

[canopyboy]

I seem to remember Treeclimber's Companion having some stuff with ascenders too, I assume you have a copy of that? Most of my climbing until recently was some sort of a combination that included ascenders (hand and foot), a DRT loop (not DdRT), and a Blake's (eventually switching to VT) with a micropulley.

I would stand up on the foot ascender, which would also cause the hitch to tend on the pulley. The hand ascender was above the hitch. I would reach up with the hand ascender, hold my weight, and raise my foot. Repeat. You're not really trusting the ascenders if your hitch is working. In fact, I would just rest on the hitch by sliding it up and letting go of the hand ascender. Kick off the foot ascender, unclip the hand one, and attach a figure 8 to descend.

As for buying the Frog system, you already have two of the ascenders, why not just buy the chest ascender seperately? The rest is just some straps/line.

 

[tree md]

I seem to remember Treeclimber's Companion having some stuff with ascenders too, I assume you have a copy of that? Most of my climbing until recently was some sort of a combination that included ascenders (hand and foot), a DRT loop (not DdRT), and a Blake's (eventually switching to VT) with a micropulley.

I would stand up on the foot ascender, which would also cause the hitch to tend on the pulley. The hand ascender was above the hitch. I would reach up with the hand ascender, hold my weight, and raise my foot. Repeat. You're not really trusting the ascenders if your hitch is working. In fact, I would just rest on the hitch by sliding it up and letting go of the hand ascender. Kick off the foot ascender, unclip the hand one, and attach a figure 8 to descend.

As for buying the Frog system, you already have two of the ascenders, why not just buy the chest ascender seperately? The rest is just some straps/line.

That is pretty much how I was ascending with the hand ascender but my hitch was above the hand ascender. I'm not sure which is right but after reading about that climber falling onto that iron fence I figured I would read a little bit of what the experts have to say before I go jack legging on my own. I really don't see how you could fall as long as your tied in with a prussic though.

As far as the frog goes, I need to do a little more studying there too. From what I have gathered, you need a left handed ascender to work in conjunction with the croll. The diagram I have shows the Pantin on the right foot, used in conjunction with the croll and a left handed ascender. From what I can see, it looks like you need a left handed ascender to work properly with a croll. Maybe someone can jump in and clarify that.

 

[canopyboy]

From what I can see, it looks like you need a left handed ascender to work properly with a croll. Maybe someone can jump in and clarify that.

You got me there. I'd like to know now too.

 

[tree md]

OK, I tried the hand ascender backing it up with my VT. I took all the excess out of my prussic and retied my scaffold knots. Still to short to get a good stroke. I put a loop runner on my bridge. Too long. I doubled the loop runner. Still too long. Got stranded about 4 feet off the ground for a minute, lol. I need a longer prussic to get a good stroke. I think I'm just going to get a good length of cord so I can start making my own prussics. I need to get some more stuff to really be efficient but it is definitely easier than what I have been doing.

Edit:

I do have a copy of the TCC CB. It is old and decrepit but still halfway ledgable. I checked it out and it advised to tie your hitch above the ascender.

Got to go look at 6 Elms to prune this afternoon so hopefully I'll be able to use my ascenders for the money on that.

 

[VA-Sawyer]

I started climbing at the age of 50. My second order from Vermeer included a TreeFrog system. Best money I spent on any of my climbing gear was the TreeFrog.

When I started I didn't have much upper body strength and had to rely on the Pantin and the footloop on the ascender to get up the rope. Now I'm in better shape, and I can hand over hand for short ascents, mainly using the Pantin just to tail slack through my knot/micropulley.

A few safety notes about the TreeFrog system as it comes from Sherrill. They have a line hanging from the bottom of the hand ascender to attach to your saddle. I suggest that you NOT attach it to the same attachment as you use for the Croll. My Croll is attached to the rope bridge of my saddle so the safety line from the ascender is attached to a side ring. This provides a second independent safety in case the primary support point should fail. I also found that the knots on the safety line wanted to work loose every couple of climbs. I fixed that by retying with enough tail to tape.
You can use the TreeFrog on Doubled rope but I find that the biner on the second end of the climbing line interfers with the Croll on my setup.

I put the Pantin on my ankle for almost every climb ( except the ones with spikes) and will slip the rope in and out of it as best suits my need for the moment. I will use the Croll for major upward moves because of its low friction on the rope and less "lost motion" during the climb. I add the hand ascender and footloop for climbs over 40' just to keep things easy on the arms.

 

[tree md]

I started climbing at the age of 50. My second order from Vermeer included a TreeFrog system. Best money I spent on any of my climbing gear was the TreeFrog.

When I started I didn't have much upper body strength and had to rely on the Pantin and the footloop on the ascender to get up the rope. Now I'm in better shape, and I can hand over hand for short ascents, mainly using the Pantin just to tail slack through my knot/micropulley.

A few safety notes about the TreeFrog system as it comes from Sherrill. They have a line hanging from the bottom of the hand ascender to attach to your saddle. I suggest that you NOT attach it to the same attachment as you use for the Croll. My Croll is attached to the rope bridge of my saddle so the safety line from the ascender is attached to a side ring. This provides a second independent safety in case the primary support point should fail. I also found that the knots on the safety line wanted to work loose every couple of climbs. I fixed that by retying with enough tail to tape.
You can use the TreeFrog on Doubled rope but I find that the biner on the second end of the climbing line interfers with the Croll on my setup.

I put the Pantin on my ankle for almost every climb ( except the ones with spikes) and will slip the rope in and out of it as best suits my need for the moment. I will use the Croll for major upward moves because of its low friction on the rope and less "lost motion" during the climb. I add the hand ascender and footloop for climbs over 40' just to keep things easy on the arms.

Thanks for the info. I'm looking for all the input I can get. I am 40 now and have been at this for awhile but never really had anyone to teach me new techniques. I read about all the new stuff on here and other sites and yearn to try some of it out. Hard to do when your busy but I have been painfully slow this year. The main thing is I don't want to get hurt. That's why I put a lot of research in the stuff before I buy and test it low and at my own pace before I incorporate it into my actual work.

I had always thought that a frog system was a sit and stand method, like the cavers use until I recently saw a vid of an arbo rope walking with the tree frog. He made it look so efficient that I am just dieing to try it out. I pretty much had the tree frog system in mind when I bought my latest saddle which is a Petzl that has an independent croll attachment. The manual comes with instructions on how to attach and use the croll. I read about folks having troubles getting them in the proper position with other saddles and kept that in mind when purchasing mine. Looking forward to doing a little more advance rope work and thank you for your advice.

 

[Tree Pig]

I had posted about this system before and have debated trying it, little more money the the frog but very similar in idea.

Mitchell walker system

 

[treemandan]

Man do I feel like a moron.

I got my old CMI ascender out and started checking it out. I figured out that you can attach it midline which I didn't think you could. When I first got it I was working with another climber who told me you could not attach it midline (after I had already bought the thing). I had him with me when I tried it out and he showed me how to put it on the rope. Since he claimed to know what he was doing I never questioned what he said. Since I really didn't know what I was doing and didn't trust mechanicals very much I put it away. Goes to show you how much I know about ascenders.

Anyway, I got it out and it was a little rusted where it had gotten wet sometime in storage. I cleaned it with some gun oil and wiped it down real good and it works like a champ. Only thing is it is a left foot ascender. I have bigger muscles in my right leg but I can still get up the rope on it relatively well. It's easier than footlocking for me. I have an old foot injury where I fractured my heel and footlocking makes my foot hurt. It beats the heck out of hip thrusting.

To tell the truth, most of my prunes around here consist of deadwooding and most of the trees around here have a low canopy. Sure there are the large Pecans and Oaks but for your average tree around here it is no problem to get to the first limb and take off from there. I am just kind of playing with the ascenders right now but I do have some large Oaks to deadwood in the future and I'm going to have to ascend around 60' without spurs. It is a biotch to get that high hip thrusting and foot locking hurts for me so I am checking out new (to me) approaches.

I just ordered On Rope and plan to study that before I incorporate my hand ascender. I want to make sure I back it up properly before I put myself out there with it. I climbed with it (low and slow) a couple of times before and backed it up with a prussic but I'm not sure that it was correct. For right now I am just ascending with the foot ascender and advancing my VT (Ddrt). I only saw a climber climb on ascenders one time before and there's only so much you can learn on the web. Anyway, I got the new school bug. I'm still thinking about ordering a tree frog setup.

Hold up. what rust? Rust? where rust? lets see the rust? really? rust?

Is it on the cam's center pin? What else could rust on that?

 

[tree md]

Hold up. what rust? Rust? where rust? lets see the rust? really? rust?

Is it on the cam's center pin? What else could rust on that?

Yeah, I hear ya Dano. I cleaned it up good and inspected it thoroughly. Just a little surface rust. Seems to be in good working order. If I were using it for life support I would probably be more concerned but that is not the case.

Didn't you know that rust never sleeps???

 

[canopyboy]

Yeah, I hear ya Dano. I cleaned it up good and inspected it thoroughly. Just a little surface rust. Seems to be in good working order. If I were using it for life support I would probably be more concerned but that is not the case.

Didn't you know that rust never sleeps???

I think he means where is the steel to rust? My pantin is aluminum with a plated cam of some sort. Maybe the spring and hinge pin is steel, but that would be tough rust to clean.

 

[tree md]

I think he means where is the steel to rust? My pantin is aluminum with a plated cam of some sort. Maybe the spring and hinge pin is steel, but that would be tough rust to clean.

A little surface rust on the cam. No biggie. I hear ya though, I like my gear to be tip top and spic and span. It cleaned up well and no problems that I can see. Like I said, not using it for life support either but might be a good excuse to buy another right foot ascender???

 

[treemandan]

I think he means where is the steel to rust? My pantin is aluminum with a plated cam of some sort. Maybe the spring and hinge pin is steel, but that would be tough rust to clean.

OH no, TreeMD knew what I meant. I think sometimes when its real cold that cam set up gonna explode with to much on it. I suppose not but there is not a whole lot of material there to get even a little wore out. Just a little rivet and the light wieght cam.

I like Treeco's advice " watch out for twigs". Will do Danno, thanks for the warning. I have met one or two guys who wished they put a bypass rope around them things.

 

[treemandan]

Even in the user's book from Petzel it depicts just being tied into the lower hole of the ascender and nothing else. I don't trust them one bit. I look at it for what it is , an ascender, not life support.
But to be honest the thing hasn't ever broke... yet. I like to go with more than just that though.

Petzl has a real cool cataloge.