Why Care ?

[TREETX]

Is this hill worth dying on or even fighting for?? Rights being violated??? Take it out JPS! Finally climbing today. Later

 

[Bob Wulkowicz]

Originally posted by RockyJSquirrel
Give it a break, Bob. Removing vulgar and offensive pictures from a privately owned forum does not in any way infringe on anyone's 'freedom of speech'. Neither does removing deadwood or mistletoe from an oak tree have anything to do with running the 'beauty' of the tree through a chipper. I agree with Nate- you type a lot but say little.

Freedom is as freedom does--or tries perhaps.

I agree, I type too much. Did you have a response for the tool I presented for solving included bark? Your resultant beauty ends up in the chipper; mine doesn't.

Maybe that's why I type too much. Can't hear the answers beyond the background silence, so I type to keep myself company.


Bob soon to be deleted.
sans crab

 

[Bob Wulkowicz]

Move it to off topic...

and I'll look for the responses to some new tools in the New Arboriculture that's here in the Commercial forum.


Bob Wulkowicz

 

[Bob Wulkowicz]

Originally posted by TREETX
Is this hill worth dying on or even fighting for?? Rights being violated??? Take it out JPS! Finally climbing today. Later

A lot of hills have gotten died for. They're still around and nobody remembers.

What's the real issue, Hills or Dying?


Glad you're climbing again.


Bob

 

[che]

I didn't see the purported picture. I wasn't allowed to by a greater force that made my decision for me. In the larger consideration or war, death, and level orange, I'm sure it's insignificant, but, I'll never know.

The image, as I remember it, was of a young woman looking into the camera, her face beaten, her eye blackened. The text read something about “8itch……” Well, I can’t say I remember the rest. What I thought it was implying was this was the treatment meant for the original poster should he continue, but I don’t really know.

I am painfully aware of these situations where a woman is controlled through violence. Through the years, I have had more than a couple woman friends who have had to deal with abusive mates. At least twice, that I can remember, I have physically placed myself in between these women and their tormentors. I will live forever hearing a broken voice explaining why I didn’t hear the beating going on upstairs, “I was calling your name, Che...but he put the rug top of me so I couldn’t yell anymore.” I will always remember the gash in my other friend’s back where her ‘lover’ threw a large mirror at her. She told me it was an accident, it ‘fell off the shelf’. I remember the shame on her face when I found out the true story. The man was a big guy, over 6’3”, she was about 5’, close to 100 pounds soaking wet. It’s his fist close to my face I remember after confronting him about it, I remember FEELING the power and the rage that he had within him. (yes, I was pretty stupid back then.....)

It’s not funny. It’s not acceptable. I don't want to see some lame image on an Arborist/Chainsaw forum that is suggesting that it is. It’s not something I want anyone to think is ‘just talk’. It’s an ignorant, selfish struggle to control with violence. From my experiences, I know it is not at all uncommon.

I wholeheartedly agree with ignoring trolls. And for the most part, I ignore the occasional ‘sexual/sexist’ comment/image here on AS that isn't necessarily ‘comfortable’ for a woman to read/look at...like it or not, this forum IS mostly men. ( Some posts/attachments, if no one is looking, I may even chuckle at.) BUT….this one was different. It depicts something that no stretch of the imagination could be considered acceptable. Enough.

 

[Ryan Willock]

Bob what are you doing in this forum?? This isn't the off topic forum! How does this thread in ANYWAY even remotely (not counting the coment that TreeTx is climbing again, good to hear by the way) relate to climbing OR arborcultre??? It doesn't so delet it or move it!!!!

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

From Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913) :
Inalienable \In*al"ien*a*ble\,
a. [Pref. in- not + alienable: cf. F. inali['e]nable.]
Incapable of being alienated, surrendered, or transferred to another; not alienable; as, in inalienable birthright.

Gee i guess I have to lable my irony from now on (Ironic statement)

Let's look at the trasferable portion of the definition. mmmm Darin half seriously offerd to sell the site to you.

So how is it that the individual has the right to post whatever he pleases here, but it is unconscionable for the venue to have a view as to what is acceptable.

So if I'm in a fine resterint, and start spewing profanity in a loud voice (since I have no othe, according to my family) the establishment does not have a right to refuse my service and ask me to leave?

I undrestand you are a radical libertarian, but if your neighbors are playing very loud music all the time, do you just put in earplugs?

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Ryan, I'll delete it when I feel like it.

You see, I enjoy the power.....

Actualy I want to see if something else happens. Just give me a short while.

I'll delete it, there is nothing here that has not been said in some form or another.

 

[Ryan Willock]

Well said JPS!!! Ok John, enjoy your "power trip"!!!! Editing post and all that blood thristy sh!t!!! LOL

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

Something to the flavour of: "this 8itch didn't know when to shut up......do you?" was the caption i beleive.....

With the picture of a young, beautiful lady pitifully beaten black and blue. In a close up, textured shot; whose graininess stood in sever-all ways.

Whom, here stands for that?

Who here lucky enough to work so helathfully with the flow and flood of nature so richly around; can not see then the un-nature-all twist and perversion compaired to all else that flows around us?

i don't know if the original setting for that shot was to make a powerfull statement; perhaps at one time it originally (i would hope) have gone on to say; "and do you know when to speak up?" or something. But, i saw not the hint of redeeming value, just ugliness spread, where the opposite should stand.

If there was any message, i felt it was a threat to the originator of the thread. i half my own feelings on that; but saw this as no answer.

The ladies should not have had to come to the forefront, and first here i say; this is not a woman's issue; this is a people issue.

Originally posted by Bob Wulkowicz
Painting with a chainsaw to bring out beauty is an interesting image. How much beauty ends up in the chipper and what becomes rot later? I say that not as any criticism, but simply questioning each perspective from the different ends of the tool.

i learn from all the horty stuff posted here; but still maintain that sometimes the best thing a tree can do for it's self and brethren, is to please their stewards.

Sometimes i find a tree to be a male thing, dead branches, limbs on roof, smothering other greenery, being grossly un symetrical etc.-doing whatever the heck it wants to whatever, for it is bigger. Without 'assaaulting' all of the inner greenery i think i can bring it to where you can cut all of the grass, it curves off the roof, gently arches a might to present some smaller greenery showing it off too, no dead wood hanging, hint of clean legs curving up from center etc. kinda more female in curve and harmonizing. Still with it's massive size and leverage, but the balance of more grace. i got that imagery from the way i was taught to trim, what seemed to look good; feeling that i correctly named it this way and reason. i can tell ya fellas seem to work more 'passionately' trimming with that image, self included.

i find that dynamic range richly in natural things awesome. Even in a sporty lady that is deeply feminine and not prissy. Awesome, powerfull range and balance!

To me it is about all the same, very rich.

Yes, exactly te same but diffrent.......

Besides being tall, JP has only really made 1 'move' that i couldn't stand up for and questioned; i consider that really excellent. And am glad that as he lends himself to that seemingly targetable position; he handles it all a little better than he should have to. In both senses of the enphrasement.

Also, now i am finding the sense in the appropriately named thread..

So, okay, i'll give myself 2 aliens for all that:
:alien: :alien:

Or something like that.......

 

[take3wraps]

Oh John Paul , for such a big man you the smallest one here ! And as for nrtree , you should wise up , that picture was foolish as far as I can tell you're 1/3 of what I'm talking about ! How did a debate happen when all I said was this is a broke man's country club . I got to think about this , Hey JP , if you're such a fine tree climber why do you got to tell every one ? I'll be back later for a chat . Nrtree I heard things about you too ! Hey any one see rocky the squirell , who let the kids in the house ? Anyone see the fat man from chicago , I smell him ? Why CARE about this post so much ?

 

[rahtreelimbs]

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

Originally posted by Bob Wulkowicz


Solutions are not going to happen by gestures; we need to get to the roots. And since that's too much trouble for us to contemplate seriously, we engage in postural masturbation; the rubbing of our pretending to do something.

Hey Bob,

I am just a guest here on Spidey's keyboard, but of all people, you should show more appreciation for the power of the written word, and not name what you do mere impotent posturing. What goes on here is a very powerful exchange of ideas, which I agree, should not be censored. However, there is nothing wrong with the universal condemnation of 3wraps' post--that too is freedom of speech.

Every thought, word or deed carries its own energy--positive or negative it may be. Spidey's artistry with the chain saw adds a measure of grace to our world, and the mulch in the chipper has the potential to do so also, when applied in the right way.

So let this board be your forum for passionate and peaceful flow.

 

[Bob Wulkowicz]

Originally posted by TheTreeSpyder

Hey Bob,

I am just a guest here on Spidey's keyboard, but of all people, you should show more appreciation for the power of the written word, and not name what you do mere impotent posturing. What goes on here is a very powerful exchange of ideas, which I agree, should not be censored. However, there is nothing wrong with the universal condemnation of 3wraps' post--that too is freedom of speech.

Every thought, word or deed carries its own energy--positive or negative it may be. Spidey's artistry with the chain saw adds a measure of grace to our world, and the mulch in the chipper has the potential to do so also, when applied in the right way.

So let this board be your forum for passionate and peaceful flow.

I think it's suspect that Spyder ever has any guests, and I may just be talking with yet another popped-out personality facet of his--like anyone who does his word games can ever be in 24 hour control of his body...

I agree with written rebukes or condemnations; those are part of a process. Deletion is anti-free speech; it abruptly ends a process.

And as long as you're there, Every thought, word or deed carries its own energy--positive or negative it may be.

I believe every thought, word, or deed has both positive AND negative energy simultaneously. The speaker and the listener hear the same word and each chooses their own polarity, weight, and velocity. That's generally a problem in the use of the little beasties.

I respect Spyd's artistry and what's left of his thinking, but I offered new alternatives to just a chainsaw. What ever craft he has can be expanded by looking down new avenues.

I keep what's in his chipper box on the tree generally, and I can keep us from creating hazard trees in the future.

That's a tall boast, but I've not heard much as questions.


--------

A forum is a wonderful place for a healthy exchange of ideas, but it is essentially under the control of the authors who vote with responses as well as their feet.

They discipline the participants, and that's what I think should occur, not a moderator with only a tool of deletion. I give JPS credit for talking frankly and in advance nowadays of his actions. I sent the dim and vulgar to the Zoo in my forums (actually only one dim) and never had any other problem. Authors get better with writing more, not less.

We solve problems in writing about them, not pushing them off the screen.


Thanks for writing, whichever you were,


Bob Wulkowicz


PS: I think passionate involves turbulence more often than peace.

 

[TREETX]

Now what?

 

[Bob Wulkowicz]

Originally posted by TREETX

Now what?

Pull it or move it. It doesn't depend on me.


Bob

 

[Tom Dunlap]

From the descriptions of the original post, I'm disgusted. Whoever posted it in the first place should be apologizing it sounds like.

Freedom of speech and censorship get pretty muddy sometimes. Sounds like the picture fell into the same pile as the "fart in church" Not acceptable in the given situation.

Its a real stretch comparing deleting a nasty picture that has nothing to do with arborculture and deleting whole threads because of the content of one post. The world is better because of the use of the delete key once in a while. There's nothing wrong with enforcing some reasonable limitations in a private venue. John and I have talked about what happens here, in private, and have a few differences. So what, it's his game. Mark and I have different rules at TB. You can bet that the post would have gotten the Delete there too. We probably would have put the stink on whoever posted it too.

There are a lot of things done in the world that deserve more attention than two year old behavior by an adult on a web page. We should focus our energy there.

Tom

 

[Stumper]

Nice post Tom. I saw the picture and say "Thanks John for deleting it." Now I'm going to go read some fun threads.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

To give the mortaly wounded nag a final blow.. it is Derin's site and he asked me to hold to a certain standard.

Some things have happened here that have made good people not want to return.

I will continue to sumarrily delete, with prejudice, posts and threads that may reduce the traffic to the site.

I've always let these types of threads continue till they get boaring.

Yo D-Philly, I never said I was a great climber, just above average. I also enjoy sharing ideas and methods of tree care. I stay in trees because I make descent money and have fun doing it.

I also think you are funny.

 

[rbtree]

Yo big John,

I'm sure glad you make "descent" money!!! I'd hate to have to be the one to go up and bring you down...even if I got the money fer it!