Why is Stihl bar oil more expensive than wally world?

[buzz sawyer]

Reminds me of a story I read in a book about a guy in Alaska. A bear had broken into his cabin when he was out on a hunting excursion for a couple of days. Bear ate everything in the cabin...including a quart of motor oil. Apparently the bear got into the motor oil fairly early in the process, because his cabin was full of "evidence" that regularity would not be the bear's problem for a while. He slept in his truck.

Mark

Haha! What if the bear had found the canola instead? At least the cabin would be environmentally friendly. :hmm3grin2orange:

 

[RiverRat2]

Hey Tree slinger

: what brand of bars and tips do you run? just curious, I run some oregon power match, husky, and some of the stihl. the roller/tips on the power match & husky bars have a hole for greasing and they seem to last alot longer when i remember to grease them. was just wondering??umpkin2: Oh I amost forgot I think I would have slept in tha Truck Too!!!!!

 

[bwalker]

Stihl bar oil is Napthetic based, and most other bar oils are typically Parafinic (meaning wax based).

There are only 3 refineries in the US that produce Napthetic base oil. Only One produces Stihl bar oil - Omni. Omni offers a closed system meaning no other products flow through this line except Stihl. The napthetic base Stihl uses is a virgin base and is not re-refined or recycled oils since these types will always contain suspended contaminants. They also use twice as much paratac, (sticky) as anyone else. Paratac is the most expensive additive in bar oil which is one of the reasons Stihl more expensive.

Pariffinic doesnt always mean wax and any tech person that would say so is pretty out of the loop. IMO.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paraffin IN fact gasoline contains many parrafins, kerosene is a paraffin, mineral spirits, most HC aerosols, pentanes and many other things that arent even remotely waxy
And most packaging companies like Omni operate in the same manner.
Napthenics also thin and thicken with temperature as all oils do.
All in all I would say the response is allota hot hair.

 

[SteveH]

Couple autumns ago, I came home one evening, after dark, and had a bunch of quart bottle of Pennzoil in my truck, those bright yellow things. Some store had 'em half price, I grabbed a bunch. Since it was windy, cold, and dark, I set them in the open side of my 5-cord woodshed, sitting up on some firewood, instead of unlocking the door to the toolshed and putting them inside with my chainsaw oil, gas, etc. Came down the next a.m., with the chainsaw to do some cutting, found the oil bottles [which were for my car, not my saw] lying around leaking motor oil all over the cutting area, saw horse, floor of the firewood bins, etc. Each and every bottle [think there were two dozen] had puncture holes, size of a bear canine tooth. The bear tracks in the dirt confirmed this. Yep, sure saved me a bunch of money with that half price oil.

 

[Tree Sling'r]

: what brand of bars and tips do you run? just curious, I run some oregon power match, husky, and some of the stihl. the roller/tips on the power match & husky bars have a hole for greasing and they seem to last alot longer when i remember to grease them. was just wondering??umpkin2: Oh I amost forgot I think I would have slept in tha Truck Too!!!!!

I use the Oregon Reduced Weight bars 32" and 36" with Cannon tips. I sometimes also use a 42" Cannon bar. I also have a greaser, but whenever I used to grease I would blow a tip. So I don't grease any more.

 

[Lakeside53]

If anyone is interested in a good paper on basic oil types, napthenic, parraffinc etc... etc..


http://www.pdhengineer.com/Course F... PDF Files/Lubricating Oils and Additives.pdf

Other:

Stihl's choice of napthenic base seems be based on not requiring the inclusion of additives to reduce the pour point - just virgin napthenic Base and Paratec. They believe it works better across the temperature ranges of bar/chain needs, and that their winter grade is only required at temperatures less than 20F, if that's a valid data point in this discussion.

Whether Stihl bar oil works better than another brand or other base chemistry will always be debated , but the single point packager (distribution costs) and limited USA refiners definitely makes the oil more expensive to them, and to us. Obviously they think it's better than brand -x, but..

Anyone have the MSDS for Husky or other brands to see what they put in theirs?

 

[bwalker]

http://msds.walmartstores.com/cache/25060_1.pdf
Looks like on paper that WalMart supertech is even better than Stihl as it contains a EP additive.
Andy, Stihl is giving everyone the shaft. Their bar oil is no differant than anyone elses.
I hope the Dolmar dealer who suggested that my 7900 leaked oil due to "cheap" bar oil sees this.

 

[bwalker]

btw notice that the cas # for the base oil are the same? They use the same oil!

 

[Chainsaw Master]

I use the Oregon Reduced Weight bars 32" and 36" with Cannon tips. I sometimes also use a 42" Cannon bar. I also have a greaser, but whenever I used to grease I would blow a tip. So I don't grease any more.

Tree Slking'r I fell for a tree lenght operation for 15 yrs, after many tip replacements, threw away grease gun, cured the burned tip problem. Now I'm gonna switch to veggie oil. I figured I've breathed in 15-20 gallons of crude oil, over 25 yrs of daily saw operation. So I'll try veggieism...... oil is oil

 

[GASoline71]

You must be much smarter then you appear!

Nah... just appears in the wrong places!

Gary

 

[Lakeside53]

btw notice that the cas # for the base oil are the same? They use the same oil!

Combining your two replies:

Their additive mixes/ratios are different. You can't say it's "the same" as everyone else - so far we only have two data points. O.k., you can say it, but

I don't know if one is better then the other - at least two agree the base oil is the is the right choice, or, Stihl sells it to them (if not Stihl, then who might it be)?
What's the price on that Walmart branded oil?

I know the dealer cost of Stihl and it's not all that bad, but dealers have to eat too. Most dealers buy the 1 gallon jugs for easy handling.

I doubt Stihl is shafting anyone - they have a higher costs whether it be of their own choice or not.

And don't get me wrong... I really care less about who uses what... I'm just passing the info so it can be explored. At least the myth that all bar oil is the same refinery junk is debunked.


When we get some more info, I'll feed it back to Stihl and see what they say...

 

[bwalker]

Combining your two replies:

Their additive mixes/ratios are different. You can't say it's "the same" as everyone else - so far we only have two data points. O.k., you can say it, but

The Stihl MSDS shows a 1% treat rate on the tac additive, while WalMart supertech shows some a 1-10% treat rate for its tac additive and a EP additive of less than 5%. Supertech could very well have a higher treat rate than Stihl, but certainly not a lower one.
What is the same is the base oil used. Being that the two oils are produced in the same town I would think that the same refinery produces both base oils.

Stihl sells it to them (if not Stihl, then who might it be)?

Stihl doesnt produce oil so its not them selling it to WalMart. The walmart MSDS lists says Quaker State/Pennzoil as the MFG

I know the dealer cost of Stihl and it's not all that bad, but dealers have to eat too. Most dealers buy the 1 gallon jugs for easy handling.

I got to eat too And to pay double to triple the cost for Stihl oil because its in a orange bottle is assinine.

What's the price on that Walmart branded oil?

About $3.49 last time about a half dozen gallons, although I have bought it on sale for $2.99

I doubt Stihl is shafting anyone - they have a higher costs whether it be of their own choice or not.

When stihl is selling a very simular product that cost much more($12 from the local Stihl guy) what do you call it? I call it a shafting. They do the same thing with their two cycle oils and their of even more medicore quality.
The packaging thing is also BS as most packagers operate in the same way.

And don't get me wrong... I really care less about who uses what... I'm just passing the info so it can be explored. At least the myth that all bar oil is the same refinery junk is debunked.

I dont think that myth is debunked at all. The base oils in both the case of Stihl and Supertech could be comprised of reject hydraulic oils. We simply do not know. However, something tells me they are not going to use the highest quality base oils to produce a constant loss oil.

 

[Hard Knocks]

Anyone have the MSDS for Husky or other brands to see what they put in theirs

Here is the MSDS for Husky clear winter oil. It only givs a CAS# for the base oil and tackifier.

 

[Hard Knocks]

I did a serch for the CAS# 64742-52-5 used in Husqvarna's oils. It comes up as "Heavy Hydrotreated Naphthenic Distillates (petroleum).

 

[bwalker]

I'll be darned. All three of the bar oils mentioned use the same base oil.....

 

[Lakeside53]

Ben:

Not sure what you mean by "the packaging thing is BS". All I said was that they package though Omni who has a dedicated line for for Stihl. I assume anyone that commits to a large enough quantity can get here own line/QA. It was just a data point, not an assertion that it was really special, although a dedicated line does make it a lot easier to keep a tighter specification.

I don't know what the Tac additive or the other large % additives are in the Walmart oil. The large % could just be junk, but who knows...? It might just be a function of the use of a non-dedicated packaging line. I do know what the 1% Tac additive is in the Stihl oil. The large variation range on the Walmart MSDS is interesting. Stihl is 99%, no variation. On the surface it would seem Stihl has a more exacting spec. Does it make any difference in the final product - don't know. You can't assume that Stihl doesn't use high a quality oil - it is Stihl after all, and Stihl Germany still calls the shots.

Dealer markup combined with a higher purchase price is certainly one of the reason why Stihl oil is more expensive that the Walmart brand - small store verses biggest box store. If you're paying $12 for Stihl oil then certainly go somewhere else! Roughly $8 is MSRP here. Yes, even if your dealer has a high cost of goods, it's no reason why you have to pay for it. I see dealer markup on oil around here ranging from 0 to 70%, but that assumes the dealer is buying in bulk and not paying inbound freight. Now and then we have to pay inbound freight when we mess up our bulk oil order, and it make a huge % increase in cost per unit (gallon). $4 freight per gallon is typical though UPS just to our store - not somethig we strive to do... as it's often cheaper to buy it from another dealer with some markup than order direct.

 

[Lakeside53]

I'll be darned. All three of the bar oils mentioned use the same base oil.....

That's good! Let's dig into some the other brands...

Can we get more data on the tac additives? One of Stihl assertions was that the Paratec they used was expensive. Is it?

 

[Wes]

Stihl tastes better...

Seriously, as far as getting shafted, it depends on how much money you think the dealer/store/supplier should make. If WalMart's margin on that gallon is 40%, are they shafting anybody? What about at 50%? When does convenience stop and shafting begin?

 

[computeruser]

I couldn't care less what WalMart oil costs, since buying it would require GOING to Wal-Mart to get it. Ick.

Anyway, in all seriousness maybe I'm not appreciating the true cost difference. It would seem to me that the price differential between various bar oils purchased by the gallon is so small as to not be worth even bothering to consider. How often do most of us go through a gallon of bar oil? A month? A day? An afternoon? A week? And we're talking about maybe a $4/gallon difference between cheap-o stuff and high-end stuff, right? I don't see where all the fuss is about price.

So, I figure it's kinda like worrying about which gas station is charging $.05/gallon less than another.

 

[Leebo]

I couldn't care less what WalMart oil costs, since buying it would require GOING to Wal-Mart to get it. Ick.

Then there is parking 1/4 mile away, wandering around in Wallymart, looking down in your cart to find $100 worth of crap that you threw in while you were looking for the bar oil, standing in line at the checkout and another 1/4 mile hike to the truck. Where is the savings?