Why not higher performance from the factory

[Crofter]

Why don't the manufacturers build in some of that extra performance that Dennis and Ken, etc. are extracting? Would there be problems for them such as owners overrevving and blowing up an overly lean saw. There must be some negatives from their perspective or they wouldn't be leaving that money laying on the table. I am much more familiar with auto engines and the tradeoffs you make when you go after too much performance. With saws thoug it seems like a win - win situation.

 

[woodsjunkie]

EPA enough said !!!!!!!!!!

 

[treeclimber165]

The other thing to consider is that only 20% (I'm guessing) of the saw buyers actually know how to properly use and maintain one. A wimpy dull saw will cut just as well as a hopped-up dull saw.

 

[bwalker]

I think the MFG's just do the least amount possible. When you look at these saw motors they are so crude its not even funny. There are many things that could be done to get more power and wider power curves.

 

[Newfie]

EPA and how about 99% of saw users are too cheap to pay the extra cost the manufacturers would tag on. Would you buy a 372 from your dealer for $1000? With the experts we have here we can be assured that the extra $$ are well spent on individual and careful attention.

Why don't car manufacturers trick out $15,000 sedans if they have the technology? Price point and EPA regulations drive the market.

 

[eyolf]

In my limited experience at a regional warehouse distributor for several OPE lines, I can say that Newfie and Bwalker pretty much got it pegged.

It's all about maximizing profits. Any one of those saw companies could put out a saw that was individually toleranced, had every ounce tweaked, but how many would they truly sell? Some of these products have a fair amount of design and engineering $$$ put in them, but tiny amounts of labor actually assembling, testing, packing and shipping them.

An average mfg firm in my region has to earn around $55 an hour for each production employee to carry exempt staff, service debt, and maintain infrastructure. So assume that a sharp team of 3 technicians could produce about 40 highly tuned saws per week...you now have added about $165 to the costs for each saw. These 3 probably couldn't handle the inspection and segregation of tighter tolerance parts...oops, more money. Special items like exhaust or intake components, specially trimmed plastic parts, decals, maybe even separate molds to produce the hot-rod stuff. Money.

It's a whole lot more satisfying to pay the money to a friendly race mechanic, anyway, and I'm sure they find banking the $$$ satisfying too

 

[Stumper]

I think the performance we are getting from mass produced saws is pretty amazing! There isn't any money in custom work from the manufacturer's standpoint. Fortunately there are technically minded mechanics who are willing to work cheap and work wonders.

 

[bwalker]

The thing that bugs me is that little tings could be done to up power and actually increase reliability. On example that comes to mind is produceing a saw with a functional squish band clearance. From the factory they are so loose its not even funny. Titghten this clearance up and you will have more power, the piston will run slightly cooler, and the motor ability to resist detonation will increase.

 

[bwalker]

Also, why couldnt they put a non epa muffler cover in each box with the disclamer"for non US use only".

 

[Tom Dunlap]

All of the major manufacturers will be at TCI this week. Why don't you guys ask them directly? Who's attending?

Tom

 

[eyolf]

BWalker sez:

Also, why couldnt they put a non epa muffler cover in each box with the disclamer"for non US use only".

That's a good one, <slapping knee>.

Remember the catalytic converter "test pipe"?

The EPA does.

 

[Crofter]

I suppose there would be little use increasing port area and timing if the exhaust is restricted anyways to meet EPA concerns.
BWALKER you mentioned that reducing the squish band volume would make an engine more restant to detonation. Is it because of increased turbulence?

Frank

 

[bwalker]

Yes, increased turbulance speeds up the combustion process. The faster you can get a full charge combusted the less likely a motor is to detonate.

 

[tony marks]

well the only thing against them doing that . would be injuries. some of the hopped up saws ,would almost surely put a new saw user in the hospital.
mines stock ,but with this rs chain and a good sharpen job ,i dont think a beginner got no buisiness using it without direct supervision. i can only imagine what a new saw with powertune characteristics would do.jmo.
im still gonna get me a one power tuned ,when ive got the rite saw.im thinking power tuning one o my saws in the 50 cc range would make more sense as thats what i use 80percent of the time.

 

[timberwolf]

Not sure about the injury point, I think more people get hurt because a saw does not cut well, making modifications to improve a saws cutting charicteristics should reduce the chance of injury (provided the modification does not contraviene a safety feature).

ANSI or OSHA regulations on sound levels also might factor in on muffler design, in order to reduce sound levels a larger muffler and possibly smaller openings are required. this would add cost and weight so the idea does not do well for sales.

TW

 

[tony marks]

timberwolf i see your pt. but still dont think a newcomer has any buisiness
with some of the stuff thats available stock. cant see lettin my kid learn with a high performance saw. u gotta understand that ive never operated a hiigh performance saw. so im speculating. although at my level mine sure do high performance to me.
aint satisfied until they give me what i think is their best.later now

 

[Bill G]

I agree with most all responses so far. In my opinion there are many reasons why the manufactures do not want to produce high performance saws. As has been mentioned earlier they will only sell to a limited customer base. The tooling and production costs would eat them up. The EPA is one huge concearn. In my area of the midwest it is no problem but from what you guys have said it is a huge concearn on the coast. The only problems I have seen in this are with the EPA is checking cat"s on cars/trucks, dipping diesel tanks for red dye, and hammering us for burning tires in brush piles. The safety factor is a problem also. I agree that a dull saw can cause as much if not more problems than a sharp one but it is still a problem. One thought that has not been mentioned earlier is realiabilty and longevity. I am no expert and I know the experts will argue but I believ this might be a problem. I know that some modifications will increase longevity but some will decrease it also. Take for example the Ford Thunderbird Super Coupe. It had a 3.8 liter supercharged engine. It had plenty of power but the power was seldom needed. It was a short life engine and was discountinued shortly. The Thunderbird with the same normally aspirated 3.8 liter engine had great longevity. It was caple of 200,000 miles. Once again I am no expert but if you increase the RPM and performance of a chain saw then I believe you run the risk of decreasing its longevity. I know you experts will say I am dead wrong but it will make for a great conversation. As a saw maker they would want to sell some replacement parts but not jugs and pistons. They would not want to have customers say "It was the most powerful saw I ever had until it blew apart". How many saws would they sell then. What does everyone else think

Bill G