Wire Stops

[John Paul Sanborn]

I've seen this thing advertised twice so far.

A wire nut for cableing that eliminates the need for all the rest of the hardwear.

The cable penetrates the tree and the nut stopper is set on the cable end.

Don't see how it is tentioned though.

Anyone look into this yet?

 

[Hemlock]

I might be way off JP but except for the hex shape it looks like the old wedge babbits that are used in logging to terminate a skidding line. The way that the strands look spread out it looks like there are cone shaped wedges around the core. There is a picture on page 109 in the Baileys catalog but are probably too big for what you want.

 

[NickfromWI]

What is meant by "the cable penetrates the tree?"

I assume a hole is drilled, but how do you attach that nut to the hole?

love
nick

 

[Hemlock]

Would'nt it make sense to put a big washer against the tree to keep the babbit from being pulled back through the hole or is the tree supposed to grow around it? Would you use a fiddleblock to tension the tree while you attach another one to the other end instead of tensioning the cable? I thought these systems were supposed to be dynamic to change with the tree as it grows.

 

[NickfromWI]

I'm sure the picture John showed is not used in a dynamic system.

 

[ORclimber]

I haven't seen it work. What keeps the holes on the insides of the trunks from being worn bigger and bigger?

 

[NickfromWI]

So you drill a hole in the tree just big enough that the cable fits through. Thread the cable through, insert the stopper on the end of the cable.

No washer is needed?

How much pressure is needed to get the cone to hold the cable strands? Finger tight? pliers? more?

They use a similar device when installing cables on Ropes/Challenge Courses. It's called a strand vice.

love
nick

 

[Tom Dunlap]

I've seen these and installed them on the climbing tree at TCI-03. The installation is very easy. Drill a clearance hole all of the way through the wood, slip in the cable, slip the hex over the strands, unravel the strands, put on the tapered insert, tap it in to seat it, cut the ends and leave a bit to bend over.

I like the principle. Very easy to install, few tools needed ( that can be considered sacriligous, Tim Taylor will strike me dead ) and is strong.

On the other side of the leave though we can't forget that the tool isn't covered in the ANSI regs. About a year ago we discussed this thoroughly on the ISA forum. Scott Cullen made some really good points about a potential liability if the tree ever failed. Personally, I wonder if there is any more liability exposure. I think that in a law suit a good defense lawyer could show that a procedure could exceed ANSI even if it isn't covered.

Another issue I have with the tool is that it's a hex. I'd rather see a round profile. It was shown that pointed washers lead to more cracks so it would seem to follow that a hex is a little better. There is no reason that I can see to have a hex profile. There's no tightening in this system, the tree is pulled in to place to account for any tension.

Another issue would be when the installation is done and the two ends will move perpendicular to the cable. If there is any rotation of the stems I have to wonder how many cycles the cable could take before failing. Another example of bending paper clips. Since I don't use steel in a dynamic situation I'm not going to be that concerned in my applications.

I think that the next time that I have a steel cable to install I'll be using them.

There is a consideration for the amount of intrusion into solid, live wood. Many trade-offs.

The fellow who invented them is on vacation so you might have a while to wait for a reply.

Tom

 

[NickfromWI]

Yep, this requires two holes into the cambium, the common j-lags only needing one.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

For stability issues, many people recomend trhough bolting smaller limbs.

On all static systems, the real hoilding mechenism is the tree growing over the bolts and eyes.

Seems to mew this will cause the cabel to move around the entry hole and it will never close up well. Cable failur not beeing the big issue, but chronic mechanical cankering.

 

[NeTree]

I don't care for it.

A J-lag requires only 1 hole, that by the nature of J-lags gets sealed pretty tight when the lag is screwed in. Drilling a hole for a cable requires a hole all the way thru the limb, bigger than the cable to allow clearance. Until the tree grows over the wedge, there's a better point of intrusion for insects/whatever than with lags.

The wedge system doesn't adequately address the issue of sideways movement causing wear on the surrounding wood on the facing sides of the system, whereas J-lags and thimbles allow a "pivot" point.

The constant flexing of the cable itself is another issue. Bend steel back and forth, however little, and sooner or later it will break. Cable isn't tempered for it. It's made for TENSION.

The only real upsides of the wedge system are that it is usefull in REALLY tight places where even crotch grabs are too long. But, that's a rarity. And, it does look a little nicer with less hardware visible.

JMHO

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Looks like we're thinking alike. I'm only a few minutes ahead of you

 

[protreecare]

We have some of these, but haven't had a chance to use them yet. They cost about less than using an eye bolt, wire tie and thimble. And they are supposed to be as strong as the cable, which generally the lag or eye bolt is the weakest link. And the only way to tension is pulling the parts to be cabled together and releasing when finished. To me it does not seem like two holes through the cabium is going to make much difference in the health of the tree. With the only exception being a tree in decline with very slow growth.

 

[tshanefreeman]

Until reading this thread, I wasn't familiar with this particular static system.

I understand the reasoning for pre-compressing the two limbs in question, setting the system, and releasing the tension onto the system....................but what happens if the system needs adjustment, say if installed with too much or too little tension! Is there anyway to make minute adjustments like that of other typical systems?

 

[Tom Dunlap]

Until the extra cable is cut off and the ends bent, you can adjust. Like any other cabling system you'll get more adept at pre-setting tension. I think that this system will be easier to fine tune since there's almost no slop in the setup.

Tom

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

I am very concerned about the point where the cable exits the tree on the inside, both for repeated scaring and cycles to failure of the cable.
Each installation will be different, some will be more prone to damage than others.
If using these ends turns out to be viable, the manufacturer will seek ANSI approval. Until then, back-up installations with slightly looser ANSI approved systems, at least those that have potential liability issuses.
One point in defense of the system, is the tree grows in diameter, moving the bending point of the cable out a little each year.
A final point: there are more than one manufacturer and style of these terminations.