Wood stove research

[Pcoz88]

woodstock soapstone

I heat with mine 24/7 and yes it has a cat in it but you can also bypass the cat and not burn with it.You shouldn't have seen any cracks.Was you at the factory show room?? You can cook on the tops of these stoves.How hot do you need it to be??

 

[logbutcher]

Morso

I went with a cast iron Morso.

Which model ? Any problems ? Used for 24/7 heating ? I looked over the Morso line before we decided on the Jotul Oslo. Just didn't like the air control setup and the ash pan on the Morso 3610 (I think).

The first wood stove we got Waaaay back in the 70's :help: was a Morso
2BO with an arched heat exchanger, kind of like the double barrel stoves that the kits are sold for now at Northern Tool. But this was an elegant job that heated a 2 room cabin in suburban "woods". Super workmanship, except that I didn't have a clue how to burn the thing ...then. I tried to burn fresh cut trees, and the highway dept guys brought me all the elm I wanted:hmm3grin2orange: . They call it a "learning experience." :help:

 

[Four Paws]

1) I was really against buying a cat stove, but was going to go against my own wishes if I was won over by actually seeing a Woodstock Soapstone stove. I already knew that stuffing a cat in an old stove design was a cost cutting way for a stove company to minimize engineering and redesign costs that are needed to design and build a non-cat EPA stove. I looked inside the stove and as I suspected, It's a box with a cat. If you love ingenuity you'll have to look elsewhere, It's a box. But that was just strike one.

2) Salesman told me the warm outer surface on the model burning next to it was about as hot as it gets because of the soapstone. We told him we like to cook on our woodstove when power is out, and boil some sap sometimes. He said "ehh... maybe you might like a different brand".

3) And strike 3 which really did it was the HUGE gaps between the soapstone pieces. I'm talking 3/8 to 5/8" gaps between the pieces! It really looked like they tried to save money by fitting the smallest pieces that were just big enough to have their gaps hidden by the iron on the outside. Then they gooped wide uneven bands of cement as "filler". For $2,000.00 plus you deserve to get soapstone pieces that properly fill the holes. You deserve to get an engineered product that doesn't need a cat as a crutch.

I heat totally with wood 24/7 and this is not the one. If you burn casually and consider exterior looks to be very important, these stoves could be for you, and I know a lot of people love them for that reason.

Dan, I take it you are talking about Woodstock stoves? Hearthstone don't have cats in them.

I personally like the look of the Hearthstone Mansfield. Very bold and impressive looking...in the catalog anyway. I will be taking a trip to a dealer to check one out, as well as a Jotul 600 Firelight. I like the looks of both stoves quite well. The Morso 3610 is also a candidate. I have 2500 sqft. of open floor space to heat, so I need a big one. I have literature on the way, and plan on weighing my options.

 

[Foghorn]

Dan,

I'm sad to hear you didn't go with a Woodstock Soapstone Stove!!

We heat our 2200s.f. home, that has 10' ceilings and LOTS of windows, 24/7 with no problem. In fact my wife would have it hotter in the house if I let her. The only time we turned our two heat pumps on last year was when we went away for a week. If a stove can do that on just two and a half cords of wood a winter I don't care if it is a "Box with a cat". I works and works very well.

It surprises me to hear that the sales person encouraged you to look else where if you expressed the requirement to cook on your stove. The video I got from Woodstock has testimonies of owners remarking how the stoves are great to cook on. We haven't had to cook on it but I don't see why we couldn't - we boil water to add moisture to the air so I don't see why we could boil soup...

As far as the fit and finish of my woodstock soapstone stove I couldn't be happier. In fact, wood burners and non wood burners alike all think our soapstone stove is the best looking stove they've ever seen. A stove that can get the same complements in mid July as it does in mid January must be in my estimate a nice looking stove... If you want to talk about fit and finish go out side to your garage and look at the paint job on you favorite car or truck. If it's newer than 10 or so years old I guarantee you see orange peel and it won't matter if it's a Chevy, Ford, BMW or Mercedes...

Obviously, from your perspective, a Woodstock Soapstone Stove isn't the stove for you. I'm sure though what ever you buy you will be able to justify why it's the best stove!!!

Keep warm - Foghorn

 

[Rspike]

I am considering putting in a wood stove sometime before winter '07-08. Might as well since I love cutting firewood. I seem to have read somewhere that the EPA non-cat stoves are better in the long haul than the cat ones. The cats burn out and are expensive to replace I think was the complaint.

Can someone provide me with some insight on stove choice? I'm looking for a free standing stove that'll heat about 1200 sq ft. My home is 1800, but I'd rather have a smaller stove for supplimental heat rather than a huge one. Preferably one of the glass front models, and one that is pleasing to the eye when not in use.

What's the difference between the cast iron stoves and the plate steel ones?

thanks,
Ian

All stoves have pro's and con's depending on what your out look into a stove is.
You dont need that big of stove for 1200 sf but think about this .........
#1 When looking into a stove and how it is rated for max BTU's that all stoves are over rated and you will never , never run max BTU of any stove.
#2 Wood stoves dont work like a gas furnace and BTU rating , the heat you get out of a wood stove depends on how much wood your burning at one time , how hot your burning the wood , more air = more heat = less burn time.
adjust the amount of wood & kind of wood , air supply and you control the BTU you have and the amount of burn time.
#3 Wile one stove may say heats up to 1200 sf and max BTU of 45k BTU's than you can figure the stove will run about 26k BTU and will heat up to 900 sf.
#4 Soapstone stoves are good stoves and they put out only so much max heat and store heat to put out heat longer.
flipside is it can take up to 2 hours from a cold start to get any heat from the stove to warm your home. Soapstone stoves are better for long term 24/7 burning than just to use once in a wile because of the fact of 1-2 hour cold starts to get heat.
#5 Cast iron stoves are good stoves and put out good heat , some are better then others and look good with the different designs , some people like the top loading and side loading of cast stoves and have different options.
flip side is cast iron is just that ....... cast iron plates that are bolted together and refractory high temp cement to hold them togother and to seal them up , they take more work and maintaining and need to be taken apart rebuilt and re-cemented and put back together every so often ( 3-8 years )
#6 Steel stoves are the most common and are less expensive to build and all parts are welded so it does not have to be rebuilt , they warm up faster and the better models give long burn times. They have different styles and sizes and also come in porcelain enamel finishes on side panels that are less likely to chip then the cast iron porcelain enamel right on the stove cast.
flipside is that sense steel stoves are cheaper to build and are more common that is a lot of cheap junk out there tho are less $$ are not always good stoves.
They say the average price to get into a "good stove" is around $1200.-$1500. and then the better stoves go up from there and also the more options and better built stoves also go up.

The #1 key to buying a new stove is RESEARCH and to look at ALL the different options and different brands not just the two different brands your local dealer might have. Stick your head into the stove and take a look at how well built it is and how well made all the parts are and fit together. Look for stainless steel inside parts with secondary burn chambers , pins , rails and holders and look at ash clean out systems to see ho east it would be to clean out ash or if the ash pan system would be a PITA to work.

BTW a good ash pan clean out system makes a world of difference and also keeps you from bucket scooping the stove and get less ash and dust in your home.

Also look at Warranty's of stoves , some have 1 year , some have 5 year and the best is lifetime warranty.
When buying a new stove look at a stove as a long term item and not just a few hundred dollars difference. Your making a long term choice.
The newer EPA stoves of today are getting an average of 74% efficiency and burns longer , cleaner and save on so much wood. An EPA stove can save you 2 cords a year and more of wood from the older stoves of yester year.

Good luck.

 

[BlueRidgeMark]

#4 Soapstone stoves are good stoves and they put out only so much max heat and store heat to put out heat longer.
flipside is it can take up to 2 hours from a cold start to get any heat from the stove to warm your home. Soapstone stoves are better for long term 24/7 burning than just to use once in a wile because of the fact of 1-2 hour cold starts to get heat.

The other side of the flip side is that if you have had a cold night, but it warms up nicely during the day, that soapstone is still giving off heat long after you want it to stop. Winter is fine, but fall and spring that becomes a problem in my climate.

I like my thick welded steel. Heats up reasonably quickly, and cools off reasonably quickly. If I need to shut down the heat in the mid-morning, I just scatter the embers.

 

[logbutcher]

Good Job There !

All stoves have pro's and con's depending on what your out look into a stove is.
#1 When looking into a stove and how it is rated for max BTU's that all stoves are over rated and you will never , never run max BTU of any stove.
#2 Wood stoves dont work like a gas furnace and BTU rating , the heat you get out of a wood stove depends on how much wood your burning at one time , how hot your burning the wood , more air = more heat = less burn time.
adjust the amount of wood & kind of wood , air supply and you control the BTU you have and the amount of burn time.
#3 Wile one stove may say heats up to 1200 sf and max BTU of 45k BTU's than you can figure the stove will run about 26k BTU and will heat up to 900 sf.
#4 Soapstone stoves are good stoves and they put out only so much max heat and store heat to put out heat longer.
flipside is it can take up to 2 hours from a cold start to get any heat from the stove to warm your home. Soapstone stoves are better for long term 24/7 burning than just to use once in a wile because of the fact of 1-2 hour cold starts to get heat.
#5 Cast iron stoves are good stoves and put out good heat , some are better then others and look good with the different designs , some people like the top loading and side loading of cast stoves and have different options.
flip side is cast iron is just that ....... cast iron plates that are bolted together and refractory high temp cement to hold them togother and to seal them up , they take more work and maintaining and need to be taken apart rebuilt and re-cemented and put back together every so often ( 3-8 years )
#6 Steel stoves are the most common and are less expensive to build and all parts are welded so it does not have to be rebuilt , they warm up faster and the better models give long burn times. They have different styles and sizes and also come in porcelain enamel finishes on side panels that are less likely to chip then the cast iron porcelain enamel right on the stove cast.
flipside is that sense steel stoves are cheaper to build and are more common that is a lot of cheap junk out there tho are less $$ are not always good stoves.
They say the average price to get into a "good stove" is around $1200.-$1500. and then the better stoves go up from there and also the more options and better built stoves also go up.

The #1 key to buying a new stove is RESEARCH and to look at ALL the different options and different brands not just the two different brands your local dealer might have. Stick your head into the stove and take a look at how well built it is and how well made all the parts are and fit together. Look for stainless steel inside parts with secondary burn chambers , pins , rails and holders and look at ash clean out systems to see ho east it would be to clean out ash or if the ash pan system would be a PITA to work.

BTW a good ash pan clean out system makes a world of difference and also keeps you from bucket scooping the stove and get less ash and dust in your home.

Also look at Warranty's of stoves , some have 1 year , some have 5 year and the best is lifetime warranty.
When buying a new stove look at a stove as a long term item and not just a few hundred dollars difference. Your making a long term choice.
The newer EPA stoves of today are getting an average of 74% efficiency and burns longer , cleaner and save on so much wood. An EPA stove can save you 2 cords a year and more of wood from the older stoves of yester year.

Nice job here!
Some add-ons from a too long 24/7 wood butcher/heater :
1. Warranty depends on the maker and dealer. ASK how they've handled QC (quality control) defects in real time. e.g. 800 #, parts and labor, dealer training,....Jotul replaced my Oslo cooktop without hassle (yes, they're in Portland, Maine ).
2. Steel stoves have their problems --poor welds, thin plates, buckling/bowing due to high heat, aesthetics (many steels are plain ugly )We have a tank Tempwood "downdraft" in the shop. Side plates have bowed, firebricks are cemented and cracked, top load (yes, top), but the 20+ year old keeps burning away.
3. Casts do need rebuilding IF made cheaply ("VC" stoves from the mid-90's on). Morso uses channels in the cast plates with gasketing to seal the plates.
Others like Jotul and Heathstone and Woodstock have good QC and solid cement sealing at the factory.
4. EPA approved stoves really save close to 1/3 the wood used in pre-EPA stoves. Personal experience.
5. "Porcelain" is porcelain. Just cooked on like any applaince. It will chip, will crack, and discolor. But like Spike's pretty red stove, looks nice. :biggrinbounce2: Easy to clean BTW. And SWMBO (shewhomustbeobeyed) demanded red for the Encore, then blue/black porcelain for the Jotul.
6. Research right on. Ask who owns one and uses it hard in real time, not for entertainment heat. The high end dealers will give you referrals.
7. Finally, look at the high end multi-fuel whole house furnaces like Tarm. Not cheap, but been around for a long time.
Whew, windy here. Good job Spike, thanks.umpkin2:

 

[Foghorn]

The other side of the flip side is that if you have had a cold night, but it warms up nicely during the day, that soapstone is still giving off heat long after you want it to stop. Winter is fine, but fall and spring that becomes a problem in my climate.

I like my thick welded steel. Heats up reasonably quickly, and cools off reasonably quickly. If I need to shut down the heat in the mid-morning, I just scatter the embers.

Mark, I too live in VA and don't find what you say to be true at all. And contrary to Rspike it does not take two hours to heat up. I went with a soapstone for the very reason you claim is wonderful about a steel stove - it doesn't turn into a big block of ice when the flames die down. If it is a cool day out and I just want to take the chill out of the air I don't build a roaring fire just like you would not. Also what is so hard about opening a door or window if it does get too warm?? I read in another post were someone shared putting 5" slabs of steel(or a bunch of cut up railroad rails) on top of your stove to help old the heat. Sounds to me like they should have bought a soapstone:hmm3grin2orange:

 

[Foghorn]

Nice job here!
Some add-ons from a too long 24/7 wood butcher/heater :
1. Warranty depends on the maker and dealer. ASK how they've handled QC (quality control) defects in real time. e.g. 800 #, parts and labor, dealer training,....Jotul replaced my Oslo cooktop without hassle (yes, they're in Portland, Maine ).

logbutcher, You're absolutely right. From my experience, The Woodstock Co. has excellent customer service too!! Woodstock will refund your money and pay for the return shipping within 6 months of purchase if you're not satisfied with the stove for any reason.
:jawdrop:

 

[Four Paws]

logbutcher, You're absolutely right. From my experience, The Woodstock Co. has excellent customer service too!! Woodstock will refund your money and pay for the return shipping within 6 months of purchase if you're not satisfied with the stove for any reason.
:jawdrop:

That is a helluva good warranty! The only thing I really dislike about woodstock is the catalytic convertors. More maintenance I don't want to be bothered with.

I have it narrowed down to the following stoves. I would appreciate everyones testimony or criticism of the stoves I have selected. I need to heat 2500 sqft. of open floor space in a chalet style home. I have forced air electric heat/heat pump as my main source. I plan on burning 24/7 from late October until early April. I want to know how these stoves hold up to 5 months of continuous use - how easy they are to maintain / refurbish when the time comes.

Hearthstone Mansfield
Jotul F600 Firelight
Morso 3610

Haywood, hopefully you don't mind me kind of pirating your thread.

Regards, Josh

 

[Rspike]

.

I have it narrowed down to the following stoves. I would appreciate everyones testimony or criticism of the stoves I have selected. I need to heat 2500 sqft. of open floor space in a chalet style home. I have forced air electric heat/heat pump as my main source. I plan on burning 24/7 from late October until early April. I want to know how these stoves hold up to 5 months of continuous use - how easy they are to maintain / refurbish when the time comes.

Hearthstone Mansfield
Jotul F600 Firelight
Morso 3610

Haywood, hopefully you don't mind me kind of pirating your thread.

Regards, Josh

Good choice of stoves , you also might like to add the Pacific Energy "Summit" to that list , it rated at 97,ooo BTU / 2000- 3000 sf and has the EBT ( Extended Burn Technology ) for longer burn times and has a lifetime warranty.

Now you just need to narrow down your stoves to the best options that work for you and your needs.

 

[MotorSeven]

I'll throw in my .02. I had a Hearthstone Heritage and heated my 1634sqft log home very well(NE TX). Had to keep a kettle of water on top or the air would really dry you out. If i over stoked it, we would usually open a window because it would really get the house too hot. I was so pleased with it's performance, i am looking for another one to go in the future(to be built) TN log house. Used one's do pop up on ebay and craigs list, just search for those close by.

RD

 

[Pcoz88]

Cat

Fourpaws ,onwoodstock soap stone stoves you can bypass the CAT. MEOW MEOW:biggrinbounce2:

 

[MontanaMan]

I just rebuilt a 26 year-old "Blaze King" woodstove, and it's burning like a champ. And the old catalyst is *still* working beautifully.

We heat with it 24/7, and I only have to fill it twice a day: once in the morning, and once at night. And that's with pine and other softwoods. If we filled it with oak or something, I would go at least 20 hours. It's really amazing how efficient this thing is.

For the rebuild, I didn't really spend any money ... just took it all apart and vacuumed out the upper chamber, cleaned everything and put it back together with a new rope gasket. Spent a half day sweeping the chimney, replacing some stove pipe, and rebuilding the stove.

If I were you, I'd look into a second-hand high-quality name brand stove. You might get more stove for a LOT less money.

 

[MontanaMan]

Aren't you the same guy who started the thread a couple of days ago, looking for help about the black goo dripping down you pipes? And 2 days later you're giving stove advice?

I really don't think you are qualified to determine the effectiveness of your 26 year old cat converter.
I also might add that I also do not believe that you run 24/7 with 2 fillings of pine.

Hi Dan: I realize that everyone's entitled to post their opinion, but I gotta tell you, the hostility in your comment comes across as kind of weird. I know I just came to this site, but let me ask you: do you often pick arguments over the internet? If so, don't you think it's time to step away from the computer and get outdoors?

About the "black goo" post, if you go back and read my update to that thread, you'll see that I rebuilt the entire stove, replaced the single-wall pipe (in the proper orientation) and cleaned out all the creosote in the triple-wall pipe above the ceiling.

I tested the cat with the help of my local Blaze King dealer on the phone. The procedure is to open up the air knob and run it until the cat gets hot, then turn the knob down to the #1 position and check the temperature of the cat. If the cat stays above a certain temp after 3 or 4 hours, then that shows it's working properly. It passed that test with no problems. I called the guy back to tell him the results, and he recommended I NOT replace the cat. He has a ton of experience, and I trust his opinion.

Now ... it's possible the cat had already been replaced before we bought this house, but it looks ancient. This cat is a simple ceramic honeycomb with the proper chemicals mixed in. As long as those chemicals are still in place, it works.

I studied up on this and did a thorough job of rebuilding the stove. I've also learned a lot about how cat stoves work.

About the 2 loads of wood ... why would I lie? That's an amazingly stupid assumption to make. I've never met any of you in person, and I can assure you, I have no desire whatsoever to impress you. Did you think I have some sort of vested interest in which stove you buy? I couldn't possibly care less what you think of my stove. It's kind of pathetic to assume that someone would lie about something like that on an internet forum. Kind of funny actually. The only thing I can say is try to remind you that an internet forum is not real life ... it's just a place to exchange information. Anybody who tries to get some sort of emotional validation from interactions on an internet forum is pretty pathetic.

But ... if you're really that kind of person who has nothing better to do, I recommend you visit the Blaze King website, where they tell you it's common to get 24 hours out of one load. I've never gotten that, but every single day I get 24 hours on 2 loads of pine and larch. These are large fireboxes, air-tight, and the cat allows you to burn very little wood (low air setting), and still get a lot of heat. Do your homework before saying things like that.

Now ... if you've still got your panties in a whirl, you are welcome to come here and we'll discuss it man-to-man in person. If you're not willing to do that, I'm not going to waste any more of my time responding to silly internet insults. I'm pretty happy with my real life (and my stove) as it is.

You are welcome to respond to this post with more insults if you like. I'll gladly give you the last word. I don't need it ... LOL.

 

[12guns]

Hi Dan: I realize that everyone's entitled to post their opinion, but I gotta tell you, the hostility in your comment comes across as kind of weird. I know I just came to this site, but let me ask you: do you often pick arguments over the internet? If so, don't you think it's time to step away from the computer and get outdoors?

About the "black goo" post, if you go back and read my update to that thread, you'll see that I rebuilt the entire stove, replaced the single-wall pipe (in the proper orientation) and cleaned out all the creosote in the triple-wall pipe above the ceiling.

I tested the cat with the help of my local Blaze King dealer on the phone. The procedure is to open up the air knob and run it until the cat gets hot, then turn the knob down to the #1 position and check the temperature of the cat. If the cat stays above a certain temp after 3 or 4 hours, then that shows it's working properly. It passed that test with no problems. I called the guy back to tell him the results, and he recommended I NOT replace the cat. He has a ton of experience, and I trust his opinion.

Now ... it's possible the cat had already been replaced before we bought this house, but it looks ancient. This cat is a simple ceramic honeycomb with the proper chemicals mixed in. As long as those chemicals are still in place, it works.

I studied up on this and did a thorough job of rebuilding the stove. I've also learned a lot about how cat stoves work.

About the 2 loads of wood ... why would I lie? That's an amazingly stupid assumption to make. I've never met any of you in person, and I can assure you, I have no desire whatsoever to impress you. Did you think I have some sort of vested interest in which stove you buy? I couldn't possibly care less what you think of my stove. It's kind of pathetic to assume that someone would lie about something like that on an internet forum. Kind of funny actually. The only thing I can say is try to remind you that an internet forum is not real life ... it's just a place to exchange information. Anybody who tries to get some sort of emotional validation from interactions on an internet forum is pretty pathetic.

But ... if you're really that kind of person who has nothing better to do, I recommend you visit the Blaze King website, where they tell you it's common to get 24 hours out of one load. I've never gotten that, but every single day I get 24 hours on 2 loads of pine and larch. These are large fireboxes, air-tight, and the cat allows you to burn very little wood (low air setting), and still get a lot of heat. Do your homework before saying things like that.

Now ... if you've still got your panties in a whirl, you are welcome to come here and we'll discuss it man-to-man in person. If you're not willing to do that, I'm not going to waste any more of my time responding to silly internet insults. I'm pretty happy with my real life (and my stove) as it is.

You are welcome to respond to this post with more insults if you like. I'll gladly give you the last word. I don't need it ... LOL.

Good post, enjoyed that one. And yes, some people do pick fights on the web, usually the small girly type that can only act big when they are hiding behind a computer screen...not to mention any names...

 

[Haywire Haywood]

I agree, good post. Altho I must admit I did initially agree with DanMan. It did appear at first that it was a total newb doleing out questionable advice. Even tho I've learned a lot about chainsaws since I arrived here a few months ago, I usually refrain from giving out advice lest someone pull up one of my earlier posts and reveal that I am indeed still a newb with just enough information to get myself hurt.

Thanks for all the info on stoves. Maybe I'll burn my house down next year just out of ignorance... "wadda ya mean the first 3 sections of pipe aren't supposed to be bright red..." :biggrinbounce2:

Ian

 

[logbutcher]

Nobody Knows You Online

Hey, we're all anonymous here. It's a "forum": some advice is super, some :censored: . Some just don't have a life or work or need .
Some like Stihl, some Husky. Some 9mm, some .357.
I've had some gibone tell me how much I should have cut in a day, another fool tell me "nobody asked you on this thread" (that's the thread fuhrer).
So, get a thick internet skin and let it roll off . You're not gonna sleep with any of them , or go into combat with these fools. :hmm3grin2orange:
Let 'em rant at us. It's America.
I will now sing :help: :
"I'm a lumberjack, and I'm OK.
I sleep all night , and I work all day....................................

 

[Foghorn]

Hi Dan: I realize that everyone's entitled to post their opinion, but I gotta tell you, the hostility in your comment comes across as kind of weird. I know I just came to this site, but let me ask you: do you often pick arguments over the internet? If so, don't you think it's time to step away from the computer and get outdoors?

opcorn:

 

[woodfarmer]

boys,boys,boys

I just rebuilt a 26 year-old "Blaze King" woodstove, and it's burning like a champ. And the old catalyst is *still* working beautifully.

We heat with it 24/7, and I only have to fill it twice a day: once in the morning, and once at night. And that's with pine and other softwoods. If we filled it with oak or something, I would go at least 20 hours. It's really amazing how efficient this thing is.

For the rebuild, I didn't really spend any money ... just took it all apart and vacuumed out the upper chamber, cleaned everything and put it back together with a new rope gasket. Spent a half day sweeping the chimney, replacing some stove pipe, and rebuilding the stove.

If I were you, I'd look into a second-hand high-quality name brand stove. You might get more stove for a LOT less money.

i really wouldn't say you rebuilt a stove, maybe some maintenance and cleaning. both you boys will have to pay your dues on this site just like everyone else has, prepared to get slamed every once in a while