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Wood Stove vs. Add on Wood Furnace
- Thread starter Troy G
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logbutcher
Addicted to ArboristSite
IF you decide to go with a wood furnace, look at hearthNet's forum on boilers. They aren't cheap but work well plugged into a hot water system in place. Some in our area use the Tarm furnaces....high end stuff.
We prefer the cost, efficiency, and localized warmth of our stand alone wood stoves. Yes, there's some mess, and the arm carrying, but it gets routine and simple. If you spend time upstairs, how about another wood stove ?
Basement wood stoves don't do a good job heating except for the close up radiant heat. Remember that the basement is basically a concrete or stone massunderground. Without heavy insulation in and out, that stove is heating an enormous mass and the outside earth ! Little of that goes "up".
Grates or floor opening could help very little, and you increase fire danger like the man said.
We prefer the cost, efficiency, and localized warmth of our stand alone wood stoves. Yes, there's some mess, and the arm carrying, but it gets routine and simple. If you spend time upstairs, how about another wood stove ?
Basement wood stoves don't do a good job heating except for the close up radiant heat. Remember that the basement is basically a concrete or stone massunderground. Without heavy insulation in and out, that stove is heating an enormous mass and the outside earth ! Little of that goes "up".
Grates or floor opening could help very little, and you increase fire danger like the man said.
Yeah, it's common knowledge by now that all homes produce their own oxygen magically from inside the house.
If one's home is drafty as hell, then I'd be forced to agree with treeco. If not, then the benefits are obvious.
TS
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powerstroke73L
ArboristSite Operative
I went with the add-on because I didn't want the expense of building a hearth on the first floor and I wanted to make sure that I had plenty of usable heat. No matter what a radiant stove is going to primarily heat the room its in. You can try to move air with fans, but nothing is going to replace a system that is built to circulate air around your whole house. With the add-on I simply place the furnace in the basement right next to the oil burner, no worries about combustible surfaces save for the floor joists overhead. The chimney goes right out of an old basement window opening and up the side of the house. Also, 24/7 woodburning can get messy, but it's not a problem since the wood/bark/dirt is out of sight out of mind.
I think once we add on to the house though (I'd like to do a dining room/family room off the back) I'll get a small radiant stove like an Englander 30 more for ambiance than anything else, but since crawlspace additions tend to be harder to heat it will definitely serve a purpose. The 28-3500 in the basement will always be the real workhorse though.
I second that. I had a big problem with my house because I had roof fans installed to combat mold in the attic. Because the soffit vents were undersized and the rest of the house was tight they were creating negative pressure in the house which wasn't a big deal during the summer when they were installed. Once I turned the oil burner on for the first time the whole damn house filled up with smoke because the house was sucking air down through the chimney! I fixed the soffit problem but now I'm very mindful of outside air. I'm installing a 10" round duct from the outside of the house to the "furnace room" that will dump out right next to the Englander furnace. Also, I'm plumbing the regular house return duct into the Englander's blower so I'm not taking air from the basement and moving it upstairs.
I think once we add on to the house though (I'd like to do a dining room/family room off the back) I'll get a small radiant stove like an Englander 30 more for ambiance than anything else, but since crawlspace additions tend to be harder to heat it will definitely serve a purpose. The 28-3500 in the basement will always be the real workhorse though.
Yeah, it's common knowledge by now that all homes produce their own oxygen magically from inside the house.
If one's home is drafty as hell, then I'd be foreced to agree with treeco. If not, then the benefits are obvious.
I second that. I had a big problem with my house because I had roof fans installed to combat mold in the attic. Because the soffit vents were undersized and the rest of the house was tight they were creating negative pressure in the house which wasn't a big deal during the summer when they were installed. Once I turned the oil burner on for the first time the whole damn house filled up with smoke because the house was sucking air down through the chimney! I fixed the soffit problem but now I'm very mindful of outside air. I'm installing a 10" round duct from the outside of the house to the "furnace room" that will dump out right next to the Englander furnace. Also, I'm plumbing the regular house return duct into the Englander's blower so I'm not taking air from the basement and moving it upstairs.
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Thermal mass, such as a basement can pay great dividends if used correctly. It is well known that earth bermed homes are the most efficient to heat and cool. One's basement is an earth bermed heat sink that makes for great heat storage that is other wise lost on other levels of the home. Of course, the stove must be sized appropriately to accomplish this. Employing the thermal lag available in such a massive heat sink allows me to let my fires burn out completely, heating the home for hours afterward, extending my wood supply considerably. Of course, if I didn't wish to heat my basement at all, there are better choices, if much higher priced, to accomplish the task of heating only the upper levels.
TS
If I am 'perpetuating a myth', then so are the engineers at many of the world's best stove manufacturers. I surmise that your idea of what constitutes a myth is less experiential and more of the borrowed variety, in this instance.
Effective control over where and how much outside air is allowed to enter the home to replace that which is both lost up the flue and consumed by it's occupants is not only a logical exercise, but incumbent upon the home owner in order to get a reliable level of comfort and enjoyment out of the experience of heating with wood.
Your heart's in the right place though, kudos
Regards,
TS
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Troy G
ArboristSite Operative
I was thinking another woodstove until I found out about Add on wood furnaces. Seems I would be spending close to the same amount of money on a wood stove to heat the upstairs as I would on an add on to heat the whole house. I was considering trying to sell my stove to help finance the wood furnace.
I would prefer to just keep one stove going and keep the mess in one place. The wife put her foot down and said no stove upstairs. The upstairs is the more formal of the two levels of the house.
I appreciate all the discussion and input.
Not all wood furnaces are created equal so I don't think you can make a blanket statement that you will go through more wood with a furnace vs a stove.
There is one "gasification" hot air furnace that I am aware of produced my Kuuma supposedly very efficient and clean burning - but not inexpensive. There is also 1 furnace that is EPA rated (same rating as high eff. wood stoves) called the Caddy produced by PSG (also sold as a USStove Co 1900/1950 Hotblast). Various other brands and models provide secondary combustion, secondary combustion chambers, etc.
There is one "gasification" hot air furnace that I am aware of produced my Kuuma supposedly very efficient and clean burning - but not inexpensive. There is also 1 furnace that is EPA rated (same rating as high eff. wood stoves) called the Caddy produced by PSG (also sold as a USStove Co 1900/1950 Hotblast). Various other brands and models provide secondary combustion, secondary combustion chambers, etc.
logbutcher
Addicted to ArboristSite
CrappieKeith
Addicted to ArboristSite
I have a BJ90, but that's when I burn seasoned white oak.I do go through a bit more when I get into that white ash.I try to save the oak for Jan.& Feb.as they are the coldests months up here.
I can also get my wood for 100-110$ a full cord so it's no biggy if a burn a tad more.
My main concern is that it stays fired up from 6:30 a.m. when I load it to when I get home by 5 p.m. then I'll put a piece or 2 in and then top it off around 9 p.m.then waking at 6:30 to a bed of coals.
I hate relighting....refiring ain't too bad at all.
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sesmith
ArboristSite Operative
Yeah, it's common knowledge by now that all homes produce their own oxygen magically from inside the house.
If one's home is drafty as hell, then I'd be forced to agree with treeco. If not, then the benefits are obvious.
TS
Gotta also disagree with you too. I think you'll have to look long and hard to find a house tight enough that it won't support a wood stove without outside air ducting. The problem has nothing to do with O2 content in the house. A wood stove does not selectively remove O2 from the air...it removes air from the house. The problem is that if the house is too tight and the various fans, combustion appliances etc are on at the same time, the house will get a negative pressure in it possibly causing back drafting of chimneys, allowing CO into the house. This is what kills. If you don't have any smoke back drafting into the house, and your CO detector does not show noticeable levels of CO with ALL your outside air blowers (ie, bathroom, kitchen) and All your combustion appliances (furnace, water heater, drier, wood stove, etc) on, you're good to go. Here's a somewhat dated, but very good article on the subject:
http://www.motherearthnews.com/Nature-Community/1988-11-01/Backdrafting-Your-Last-Gasp.aspx
As far as a house being super tight is concerned, it is now common knowledge that this may NOT be a house that is human friendly. Check into some of the newer (actually, very old) natural building techniques (such as straw bale, adobe, straw clay, etc) that are gaining popularity these days. These houses breathe, yet are very energy efficient.
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