Yeah, new guy questions

[Coalsmoke]

Sorry ahead of time, I haven't read every post in this thread, but I think I am catching the main points. I have owned 3 types of mills so far. I started with a Husky 372XP and an alaskan mill, used the Granberg 30 something inch milling attachment. Works ok, nice and portable, no need to try and move 2500 + lbs of log to a mill. In fact my father and I built a 2 story timber frame barn among other things this way.

Mill #2 was when I started off in the small scale commercial sawing. I built myself a carriage style chainsaw mill. It is a large improvement over the alaskan mill, and I upgraded to a Husky 395XP saw which was a big help. This was my market tester, it allowed me to get into the business and get a feel for the local lumber market without spending too much money. This might be a good route that you may want to consider. Here is a video of me cutting cedar with it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSAgnygjdyY

The video will give you an idea of cutting speed. If you are, like you said, going to do this as a hobby and not try to sell lumber or cut a lot of wood in a single weekend, a chainsaw mill like this can be a great way to go. Plus, its resale value will always be very high because of its low maintenance needs and lower price range, it will appeal to a lot of folks.

Mill #3 is a 20HP Norwood Lumbermate 2000. I Have about $12,000 invested in it, including the professional blade setter and the sharpener. I also have a $8,000 63HP tractor with loader that will lift a little over 3,000lbs of wood or logs and bring them to the mill. This is my day to day business, every dollar I have to live off of comes from it, so it may not be a good comparison on this regard to what you want to do. However, I feel that the Norwood LM2000 is THE best mill you can get for the dollars you'll spend, in its price range. I did a lot of research before buying mine. In fact, I came out of university as a trained analytical researcher in the Criminal Justice field, so you can be sure I looked at all the facts and left the marketing hype by the wayside.

The next step in my eyes is a hydraulic mill like the Woodmizer LT40HD28. Expect to pay $28,000 new or less used.

If this was just a hobby, I would have stayed with the chainsaw carriage mill. Being able to dog the logs and not be working on the ground was a nice improvement over working the granberg alaskan mill. If you are going to be spending serious money, take a close look at Norwood and Woodmizer. For the dollar they are hard to beat. Maybe the Norwood Lumberlite would be the ticket for you? One thing I enjoy about my LM200 is that almost any part I need for it can be bought here in town at a hardware store. That said, I'm sure you'd find Woodmizer a top notch company with a wealth of technical knowledge should you choose them.

I hope some of this helps. I will put this thread on my watch list in case you have any questions about my setup.

Regards,
CS

 

[Coalsmoke]

So I guess lets move on to some more questions;

-how long do you stack your cut lumber to dry before using it?

-how smooth is it? would I need a planer before I used it for decking (barefoot grandkinds) around a pool?

And some general how to;

-say i want to mill 1x6s. Do I mill the beams 6" wide or if I mill 1x12s I would then rip them on a table saw? What's common?

-it looks like on the bandsaws you can do 2 parallel logs. Is this common? Say I split a 12x12 and leave side by side and cut 1x6s 2 at a time?

-how long do the blades usually last and how expensive are they ( just ballpark like saying a chain is around $20)


It looks to me like the Norwood CSM and a 372 would be a good place to start. It may be all I ever want and may find someone to go on shares. What's a common hourly rate or day rate for a portable mill guy where you are? What would be fair on shares if I have the logs and the tractor? 50/50? Too much? Too little? I had some guys want to log it off a couple of times over the years. They offered me 1/3. They cut, hauled and sold. This was over the phone. Only one crew ever showed up to look and they were all in-laws so could never agree on coming back and getting started. I have the smae trouble with plumbers and handymen and farriers around here. They'll give you a bid and then never return your calls. I guess it's nice to have more business than you need.

You have asked a lot of questions here. Let's focus on your main question in this thread, types of mills and then choice said of mill.

There is a lot of excellent information to be found on this website and you will spend tens if not hundreds of hours reading until you have a firm grasp on all those different areas you just asked about in your above quoted post. The search feature will be your best friend for this.

 

[BobL]

Being able to dog the logs and not be working on the ground was a nice improvement over working the granberg alaskan mill.

Using an alaskan mill doesn't necessarily mean using it on the ground.

It's relatively easy to lift even large logs to a height that suits an operator using a kangaroo jack, like this.

The one thing I do like about alaskan mills is being able mill on a changing slope and take advantage of the mill/saw's own weight. If the chain is set up just right and the log is on a slope, the CS will self feed and will not need any significant pushing - what I usually do is maintain a forward pressure by leaning on the mill. On carriage style mills the operator has to push the mill or use a winch. A winch can also be used on an alaskan but when I tried using one I didn't like it. I like to feel the saw cutting and vary the forward pressure based on the feel. The winch also does not work so well around awkward shaped logs.

In no way am I knocking carriage style mills, they have many advantages, especially if the logs are a regular size, are located in the one place and production rate is important but, used in alternative ways alaskans can be a lot easier to use than is generally shown by most operators.

 

[Old Cane]

Well, thanks for all the info, guys. I really appreciate it. I think I'm going to drop some trees in the next few weeks and then regroup and see what I've got going on. I do like the MK-III but the Small Mill looks alright too but yeah, if I get a bigger saw I'd need to go on and get the MK-III anyway.

The Norwood for under $3500 look good. The Lite with the B&S engine. So let me ask in case anyone has an answer; what do these sell for used? If I got some use out of it and sold it would it bring maybe $2500? $2000? I'm trying to see how much use I'd need out of it before I felt like I was breaking even. Buying a $200 csm and a bigger saw I want anyway is no biggie but investing $3500 (yes, to me anything over $1000 is an investment) is another story just to have some fun with it. I have plenty of expensive hobbies as it is.

 

[Coalsmoke]

Bob, of course you are correct. In fact, that's one of the reason's I enjoy your posts. Low tech but effective solutions to do what many of us rely on machinery and industrial systems to accomplish.

Old Cane, it depends a lot on a person's specific area. Usually if you want to stick with a reputable name brand you will find they hold their value well, which is bad for buying but good for selling. If you found a 3yr old Norwood Lumberlite for example, that was taken care of, I would expect to pay around 80% of new.

 

[Brmorgan]

Forget $1000, any time I buy a tool I feel it's an investment, be it a $5 screwdriver or a $500 saw.

 

[Old Cane]

Thanks, both of you.

So, what are reliable brands that have something in the $3-4000 range? Is the Hudson out? Like I said Norwood and Woodmizer are all I've familiar with, WM just from magazine ads until I saw this forum.

 

[VA-Sawyer]

Old Cane,

If you are thinking about getting a band mill, I suggest that you hire a local portable mill to come in and saw for a couple of days. You can learn a lot from watching a sawyer in action. I also don't mind answering a few questions when sawing for customers. This will give you an idea of how much work is involved with running a mill and what kind of results you can expect. See what features are really needed on a band mill and which ones you don't think you will need. This will also get you a good start on a drying stack of lumber.
After spending a couple of days working with a professional mill, get a demo of the hobby mill you think you may be interested in buying. This will allow you to understand a lot more while watching the demo in action.
A few points to make life easier for the sawyer. Have your logs stacked off the ground and grouped by type. If they are muddy or have been dragged along the ground then pressure wash them if possible. Note: gravel and rough bark are a bad mix that will ruin a blade in seconds.
I run an older WoodMizer LT40 with hydraulics. I also run 3 or 4 different hook angles on my blades depending on the wood type being cut. Real soft cutting wood like Yellow Popular, White Pine and Eastern Red Cedar cut best with a higher hook angle. Yellow Pine, Red Oak, Holly, Walnut get a medium hook angle. White Oak, Hickory, Pecan, Black Locust get cut with yet a lower hook angle. Frozen wood gets the lowest hook angle. Logs that have been cut for a while - more than 3 months in dry weather- can cut like a harder wood than they normally would.
Another thing to keep in mind if the cut lumber is going straight from the mill to a drying stack, put the longer logs in front so they can go right to the bottom of the stack. It sure can save a lot of extra handleing.
As for the cost of hiring a sawyer, I work by the hour. I charge $30 per hour for my time and $30 per hour for the mill when it is running. I normally also charge for one way of travel. If I'm on site for 8 hours, I will normally charge for 7 hrs or so for my time and will put 4.5 or 5 hours on the mill hourmeter. I don't charge for time spent eating lunch or shooting the bull. I do tend to charge for time spent teaching about wood care, stacking and drying tips, and log prep. Other sawyers may charge by the board foot. Some charge by actual board measure and some by log measure. Call around and try to have the sawyer come out and see your worksite to give you a bid.
Good luck,
Rick

PS I have traveled quite a ways to mill logs, but in your case, it doesn't sound like you will have enough work to make the trip worth while. Just giving you info about my rates to compare with locals. Rick

 

[SilverBox]

If I were you I'd do it myself. Build a Alaskan Mill heres the one I built its not pretty but it works http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=91379 . Buy a used bigger saw. I use a 394xp http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=97690 that I bought for $300 its quite ugly but I pulled the covers checked the bearings and pulled the muff and checked the p & c before I bought it. Its held up so far.

If this seems like too much work, take huskyhanks suggestion and look for a local portable mill guy who will take shares.

 

[Old Cane]

Well, I build guitars. That stuff I know. But when it comes to welding, moving parts and stuff that can become projectiles I tend to just buy it already made. Nobody ever died from a guitar coming apart, although listening to today's music makes me wonder why not. It could just be a matter of time.