To oil or not oil new cyl and piston

jbgorecom · Sep 9, 2009

What is the best way to install a new cylinder, piston, & rings. Oil the cylinder before installing the piston??? or start the saw with the cylinder dry???
I know some guys on car engines don't oil the cylinders before. This was supposed to seat the rings better.

any help from the big dogs?? (no pun intended)

jbgorecom

Hddnis · Sep 9, 2009

I rub a light coat of oil in there. I've never heard of not doing it and all the manuals I've read say to do it.

Mr. HE

blsnelling · Sep 9, 2009

Absolutely. Put just a light coat on both the P&C.

056kid · Sep 9, 2009

I use some stihl oil, or wd 40, or 3 in 1, but I dont think dry is a good idea.

AUSSIE1 · Sep 9, 2009

With your finger, oil rings, cyl and piston with the oil you use for your premix.

romeo · Sep 9, 2009

I oil them up with 30 weight. I don't see any advantage to putting any p/c together dry, including any car motor,,,,,,, ever.

Tzed250 · Sep 9, 2009

Factory Kawasaki mechanic(Jeff Ward et al.) showed me to oil the skirt. Leave the bore and rings dry(this is for a two-stroke only). The rings will seat faster using this method. I've been doing it this way for nearly two decades and it works.

Hddnis · Sep 9, 2009

Tzed250 said:
Factory Kawasaki mechanic(Jeff Ward et al.) showed me to oil the skirt. Leave the bore and rings dry(this is for a two-stroke only). The rings will seat faster using this method. I've been doing it this way for nearly two decades and it works.

That is probably because before the engine even fires it has spread a thin film of oil over the entire bore and gotten some on the rings as well.

Oil works at the microscopic level and even a fingerprint worth of oil will spread rapidly once the piston started moving.

Oiling just the piston might be a good way to avoid excessive oil. Using a bunch of oil doesn't really hurt anything but it sure smokes alot.

Mr. HE

Tzed250 · Sep 9, 2009

Hddnis said:
That is probably because before the engine even fires it has spread a thin film of oil over the entire bore and gotten some on the rings as well.

Oil works at the microscopic level and even a fingerprint worth of oil will spread rapidly one the piston started moving.

Oiling just the piston might be a good way to avoid excessive oil. Using a bunch of oil doesn't really hurt anything but it sure smokes alot.

Mr. HE

If you only oil the skirt, the lower third of the piston, then the oil will not reach the swept area of the rings. The mix is the first thing to touch the rings, and it is obviously only 2% of the oil that would be there had straight oil been applied by hand.

The point is to not have the rings gliding on a hydrodynamic wedge.

tdi-rick · Sep 9, 2009

Tzed250 said:
Factory Kawasaki mechanic(Jeff Ward et al.) showed me to oil the skirt. Leave the bore and rings dry(this is for a two-stroke only). The rings will seat faster using this method. I've been doing it this way for nearly two decades and it works.

Interesting, thanks John.
I'm sure we just used to oil up everything on the karts, but that was so long ago....
I'll ring the old engine builder and ask.

Tzed250 · Sep 9, 2009

All this being said, liberally oil the wrist pin and wrist pin bearing.

mowoodchopper · Sep 9, 2009

AUSSIE1 said:
With your finger, oil rings, cyl and piston with the oil you use for your premix.

I would not be concerned about a fast break in , seating the rings,
your rings will seat and the benefits of oil before assembly far out way the benefit of a fast ring seat.
I have exp with motocross also and can tell you the main diff is your comparing a very high strung water cooled power valve engine, to a air cooled LONG life engine.
On a motocross bike we changed rings multiple times and even a whole new top end more than you will ever change the rings on a chainsaw.
The other thing is because of time constraints, changing rings at a track,
you may need a quick break in on a bike , not so on a saw.

mowoodchopper · Sep 9, 2009

Tzed250 said:
Factory Kawasaki mechanic(Jeff Ward et al.) showed me to oil the skirt. Leave the bore and rings dry(this is for a two-stroke only). The rings will seat faster using this method. I've been doing it this way for nearly two decades and it works.

Totally diff ball game, in motocross I see the point , on a saw its unnecessary.

Tzed250 · Sep 9, 2009

mowoodchopper said:
Totally diff ball game, in motocross I see the point , on a saw its unnecessary.

On your saw it is unnecessary... :buttkick:

mowoodchopper · Sep 9, 2009

Tzed250 said:
On your saw it is unnecessary...

A real class act! Dont worry you can still have your opinon! And its still wrong for a chainsaw.

Tzed250 · Sep 9, 2009

mowoodchopper said:
I would not be concerned about a fast break in , seating the rings,
your rings will seat and the benefits of oil before assembly far out way the benefit of a fast ring seat.
I have exp with motocross also and can tell you the main diff is your comparing a very high strung water cooled power valve engine, to a air cooled LONG life engine.
On a motocross bike we changed rings multiple times and even a whole new top end more than you will ever change the rings on a chainsaw.
The other thing is because of time constraints, changing rings at a track,
you may need a quick break in on a bike , not so on a saw.

What are the benefits of more oil before assembly???

Quick break in is never a bad thing. A chainsaw rarely gets any kind of break in period, they go right to the wood. The rings are the main path of heat transfer from the piston crown to the cylinder wall. This makes it more important on an air-cooled engine.

Tzed250 · Sep 9, 2009

mowoodchopper said:
A real class act! Dont worry you can still have your opinon! And its still wrong for a chainsaw.

Proof please...

dingeryote · Sep 9, 2009

Tzed250 said:
What are the benefits of more oil before assembly???

Quick break in is never a bad thing. A chainsaw rarely gets any kind of break in period, they go right to the wood. The rings are the main path of heat transfer from the piston crown to the cylinder wall. This makes it more important on an air-cooled engine.

I learned the same from a Team Green support guy back in the 80's.

The reason for the quick "Break in" is the rings seating earlier and more fully due to less blowby build up under the rings.

Then there's the whole "Glazed" cylinder thing that comes with assembly lube that gets cooked and never really allows for ring seating.

Stay safe!
Dingeryote

mowoodchopper · Sep 9, 2009

Tzed250 said:
What are the benefits of more oil before assembly???

Quick break in is never a bad thing. A chainsaw rarely gets any kind of break in period, they go right to the wood. The rings are the main path of heat transfer from the piston crown to the cylinder wall. This makes it more important on an air-cooled engine.

If you dont know the benefits of pre assembly lube, I shouldn't even try to explain. First of all the hardest thing on any engine is a dry start, a chainsaw if your using good oil stays coated inside with oil. And yes even at 50;1 if run a oil like klotz and tear it apart it will be coated in a oil film. So the only time you would encounter a completely dry start would be if you put it together with no oil. A nice coating of oil does not in any way hinder ring seating , as soon as you run it , the oil is gone and the mix is lubing the saw. The pre assembly oil does however stop unnecessary wear and scratching of new not seated rings! As soon as you run the saw the rings start seating and its a non issue but that first few seconds is where the assembly lube counts and that's why MOST people WILL AGREE you need it.

Tzed250 · Sep 9, 2009

dingeryote said:
I learned the same from a Team Green support guy back in the 80's.

The reason for the quick "Break in" is the rings seating earlier and more fully due to less blowby build up under the rings.

Then there's the whole "Glazed" cylinder thing that comes with assembly lube that gets cooked and never really allows for ring seating.

Stay safe!
Dingeryote

Which counts for all two-stroke powerplants...

To oil or not oil new cyl and piston

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