To oil or not oil new cyl and piston

[mowoodchopper]

I learned the same from a Team Green support guy back in the 80's.

The reason for the quick "Break in" is the rings seating earlier and more fully due to less blowby build up under the rings.

Then there's the whole "Glazed" cylinder thing that comes with assembly lube that gets cooked and never really allows for ring seating.

Stay safe!
Dingeryote

That would be from to much assembly lube!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[mowoodchopper]

opcorn::monkey: Ill leave you expert engine builders alone. I agree no oil is the way to go !!! Oil is a bad thing in an engine.




The ??????????? is how many engines have you built !!! Hundreds or thousands ! I doubt it.

 

[dingeryote]

That would be from to much assembly lube!!!!!!!!!!!!

LOL!!!

And the advantage of using assembly lube is?


Stay safe!
Dingeryote

 

[AUSSIE1]

I could be wrong and only my slant on it but I would tend to think theories from two decades ago may be different to current due to our modern oils.
We don't see the carbon buildup we had a couple of decades ago.
I use sparingly and have very low smoke at startup.
My thinking is try to replicate normal lubing.

 

[Tzed250]

If you dont know the benefits of pre assembly lube, I shouldn't even try to explain. First of all the hardest thing on any engine is a dry start, a chainsaw if your using good oil stays coated inside with oil. And yes even at 50;1 if run a oil like klotz and tear it apart it will be coated in a oil film. So the only time you would encounter a completely dry start would be if you put it together with no oil. A nice coating of oil does not in any way hinder ring seating , as soon as you run it , the oil is gone and the mix is lubing the saw. The pre assembly oil does however stop unnecessary wear and scratching of new not seated rings! As soon as you run the saw the rings start seating and its a non issue but that first few seconds is where the assembly lube counts and that's why MOST people WILL AGREE you need it.

A National Championship winning tech does not agree with you...


I didn't say put it together dry. I said oil the skirts. You've mistaken me for someone who doesn't know what I'm talking about. I have been building engines for over thirty years.

You are in the mood for a pi$$ing match...I am not.

I stated my opinion, without quoting anyone and countering theirs.

Pi$$ away..... we are done:monkey:

 

[Tzed250]

I could be wrong and only my slant on it but I would tend to think theories from two decades ago may be different to current due to our modern oils.
We don't see the carbon buildup we had a couple of decades ago.
I use sparingly and have very low smoke at startup.
My thinking is try to replicate normal lubing.

The oil in question was Kawasaki Racing Oil, a synthetic blend very similiar to what most OPE makers supply today.

Normal lubing is 98% fuel, 2% oil.

 

[mowoodchopper]

LOL!!!

And the advantage of using assembly lube is?


Stay safe!
Dingeryote

Not another one I just answered that ! You guys amaze me call any real engine builder { REAL being the key word} and let them explain Im done and yes I have put together my share of engines! Two stroke and four stroke of all kinds I grew up at my dads garage , they all had assembly lube and the rings all seated!

 

[mowoodchopper]

A National Championship winning tech does not agree with you...


I didn't say put it together dry. I said oil the skirts. You've mistaken me for someone who doesn't know what I'm talking about. I have been building engines for over thirty years.

You are in the mood for a pi$$ing match...I am not.

I stated my opinion, without quoting anyone and countering theirs.

Pi$$ away..... we are done:monkey:

Your wrong about three things!
1 Were talking saws not bikes.
2 Im not in the mood for your pissing match , I stated a opinion not the same as yours and you could not handle it and started your pissing match!
3 And last but not least No I have not mistaken you for something your not!

 

[mowoodchopper]

On your saw it is unnecessary...

WHO started the Pissing match?????? Whatever dude your right!

 

[mowoodchopper]

One more thing I just repped you both ! Positive of course. Just to show you I dont hold a grudge and also dont mind if you have a opinion other than the same as mine.

 

[dingeryote]

Not another one I just answered that ! You guys amaze me call any real engine builder { REAL being the key word} and let them explain Im done and yes I have put together my share of engines! Two stroke and four stroke of all kinds I grew up at my dads garage , they all had assembly lube and the rings all seated!

Mowood,

Relax a smidge.

Assy lube is for components that require lube while operating, and would otherwise be dry on start up.

Cylinders and rings on 2 strokes get enough of a coating with the first intake stroke. If they didn't, the darn things wouldn't run very long after sitting for a week.

I ain't telling anyone not to lube thier rings and cylinders.
Just relating what I was taught and has worked for me.

If ya feel like filling yours with 80-90w and Diet Coke, have at it!
It ain't religion or somethin.

Few guys re-ring or swap pistons at the track BTW.
Even fewer now that the Valved Horrors are now dominant.


Stay safe!
Dingeryote

 

[splitpost]

glazed cylinders are more common among engines that are not put under load ,hence the breakin period

 

[maico490]

I learned the same from a Team Green support guy back in the 80's.

The reason for the quick "Break in" is the rings seating earlier and more fully due to less blowby build up under the rings.

Then there's the whole "Glazed" cylinder thing that comes with assembly lube that gets cooked and never really allows for ring seating.

Stay safe!
Dingeryote

+1 on the above.
The engine can't fire until it has drawn in premix. This has the same amount of oil in it that the engine has to live on for the rest of it's life. Everything will be lubricated properly before the engine fires. As stated certainly oil the big end and wrist pin but no more is needed. I haven't rebuilt a vast number of engines but all my MX bikes have been done this way since reading about it in Dirt Bike back in the 80's.
Using assembly oil may make you feel better but it does no good whatsoever and maybe harm.

 

[jbgorecom]

Holy smoke, or not to smoke. Thanks all for responding or all 2 cents. I think I'll just put a light coat of oil on everything, and put the saw back together.
Another myth or theory is --- don't use synthetic oil for the breakin period, supposedly the rings will never seat. Only use synthetic after the engine has been broken in and the rings seated.
Just another rumor i suppose.
Normally what I do is put a small amount of oil on everything including all the bearings and wrist pin. Get the saw running, turn up the idle and let it sit in the yard or somewhere running for 10 to 15 minutes to help seat the rings. I do not run the saw wide open till this is done. Right or wrong, this is just how I do it. I realize the shops and others don't have the time to do this.

thanks all

jbgorecom

 

[whitedogone]

I'm waiting to see what gary says about this. opcorn:

 

[mowoodchopper]

Mowood,

Relax a smidge.

Assy lube is for components that require lube while operating, and would otherwise be dry on start up.

Cylinders and rings on 2 strokes get enough of a coating with the first intake stroke. If they didn't, the darn things wouldn't run very long after sitting for a week.

I ain't telling anyone not to lube thier rings and cylinders.
Just relating what I was taught and has worked for me.

If ya feel like filling yours with 80-90w and Diet Coke, have at it!
It ain't religion or somethin.

Few guys re-ring or swap pistons at the track BTW.
Even fewer now that the Valved Horrors are now dominant.


Stay safe!
Dingeryote

I will relax a smidge! I wont use the 80-90w and diet coke, Ill use a nice thin coating of klotz! Wouldnt you feel bad if the 80-90 and coke ruined the racing engine Im working on as we speak! I did it because you said to !

 

[AUSSIE1]

+1 on the above.
The engine can't fire until it has drawn in premix. This has the same amount of oil in it that the engine has to live on for the rest of it's life. Everything will be lubricated properly before the engine fires. As stated certainly oil the big end and wrist pin but no more is needed. I haven't rebuilt a vast number of engines but all my MX bikes have been done this way since reading about it in Dirt Bike back in the 80's.
Using assembly oil may make you feel better but it does no good whatsoever and maybe harm.

How could it do any harm?
If used very sparingly, is it not closely replicating normal startup?
Pull your saw out of the shed, start her up. She's already lubed.

 

[mowoodchopper]

How could it do any harm?
If used very sparingly, is it not closely replicating normal startup?
Pull your saw out of the shed, start her up. She's already lubed.

It does no harm Guaranteed!

 

[maico490]

Mowood,


Even fewer now that the Valved Horrors are now dominant.


Stay safe!
Dingeryote

I missed that the first time. Oh the joy of beating them on their new pride and joy 4 stroke on an old ring-ding. It gets better when they stall it mid-race and the look on their faces when they find bits of valve in the airbox is something to behold.

 

[maico490]

How could it do any harm?
If used very sparingly, is it not closely replicating normal startup?
Pull your saw out of the shed, start her up. She's already lubed.

The harm can come from the assembly oil only partially burning and glazing the bore.
However little you use it will still be way more than is contained in the premix which is enough anyway.