difference between semi chizle & full chizle not much ??

ok the first vid is just to show you how hard this wood is think it's peppermint gum. second vid is A3EP carlton semi chizle hand filed. so you know it's the same wood i hit with the ax if you look too the right of the log you will see the 3 hits i made and the 3rd vid is fill chizle out of the box stihl rsc. all chain is 16" 3/8
[video=youtube;jWsM6DTuKc8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWsM6DTuKc8&context=C348af22ADOEgsToPDskJAQ-K8basx3WE36RVRmZw3[/video]
[video=youtube;BX4B3GWFeMs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BX4B3GWFeMs&context=C3bfbe91ADOEgsToPDskKOnwpsUpzcj_ZJkwDCzVtf[/video]
[video=youtube;EkH--5gUAe4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkH--5gUAe4&context=C33d3c36ADOEgsToPDskKsudLI0aJD0VFi-zMd5CAQ[/video]
ok you time them and be the judge cheers hope it worked

The semi-chisel was timed at the below:
14.5 seconds
15 seconds

The chisel was timed at the below:
15.5 seconds
15 seconds


Interesting, I've been saying for a long time that there isn't that much difference between the two in cutting speed, yet the semi-chisel will outlast the chisel close to double the life, as you don't have to sharpen it but about 1/2 the amount of times or less. The biggest advantage is semi-chisel doesn't have that sharp point that gets broken off prematurely, before the rest of the cutting edge has been properly dulled due to normal use, therefore you have to "sharpen" or file off a good portion of the cutter, just to get that sharp tip back and not because the cutter edge is actually dull. This is the cause of many a crooked cutting saw, and hours of frustration amoungst those that lack as much experience in saw handling or chain sharpening.

I simply don't understand or know the logic behind chisel chain anymore. While this set of video's don't show it, I do typically feel chisel is a little faster, but the disadvantages far outweigh any real or percieved speed increases, as to make it worse than pointless and quite inefficient.

I honestly think that Chisel chain is a marketing ploy to get the masses to think they are getting more work done and cutting more wood faster, but that is not actually happening ......... all they are doing is spending more time sitting on a stump sharpening chains, therefore wearing out more chains faster and therefore buying more chains. I said it before, I am throroughly convinced, that Stihl has made less money off of me per board foot, as a result of me using their semi-chisel and not following the rest of the masses that say, I would cut more wood with chisel chain, it just doesn't happen that way in the real world.

Thanks for the videos,

Sam

I'm also a semi chisel fan. It works mo better for me...

deye223, Nice vids man!

sam i think people think it is cutting quicker because the chips are biger if you look at the kurff it is wider with chizle and because semi has a narower cut it makes up for the speed with less wood to move cheers

Slamm said:

The semi-chisel was timed at the below:
14.5 seconds
15 seconds

The chisel was timed at the below:
15.5 seconds
15 seconds


Interesting, I've been saying for a long time that there isn't that much difference between the two in cutting speed, yet the semi-chisel will outlast the chisel close to double the life, as you don't have to sharpen it but about 1/2 the amount of times or less. The biggest advantage is semi-chisel doesn't have that sharp point that gets broken off prematurely, before the rest of the cutting edge has been properly dulled due to normal use, therefore you have to "sharpen" or file off a good portion of the cutter, just to get that sharp tip back and not because the cutter edge is actually dull. This is the cause of many a crooked cutting saw, and hours of frustration amoungst those that lack as much experience in saw handling or chain sharpening.

I simply don't understand or know the logic behind chisel chain anymore. While this set of video's don't show it, I do typically feel chisel is a little faster, but the disadvantages far outweigh any real or percieved speed increases, as to make it worse than pointless and quite inefficient.

I honestly think that Chisel chain is a marketing ploy to get the masses to think they are getting more work done and cutting more wood faster, but that is not actually happening ......... all they are doing is spending more time sitting on a stump sharpening chains, therefore wearing out more chains faster and therefore buying more chains. I said it before, I am throroughly convinced, that Stihl has made less money off of me per board foot, as a result of me using their semi-chisel and not following the rest of the masses that say, I would cut more wood with chisel chain, it just doesn't happen that way in the real world.

Thanks for the videos,

Sam

Click to expand...

Something along those lines happens in the world of precision rifle shooting. They call it "breaking in a barrel". In reality a new barrel can be shot like any other barrel, but manufacturers know that the reason most barrels need replaced is due to excessive/improper cleaning. So with that in mind they recommend cleaning between each shot or so for up to the first 50 shots. I only clean my barrel maybe every 200 rounds, that means I can shoot my rifle 5000 rounds before I run a brush as many times as they do in their first 50 shots.

deye223 said:

ok the first vid is just to show you how hard this wood is think it's peppermint gum

Click to expand...

Slamm said:

I've been saying for a long time that there isn't that much difference between the two in cutting speed, yet the semi-chisel will outlast the chisel close to double the life, as you don't have to sharpen it but about 1/2 the amount of times or less.

Click to expand...

I think that the type/species of wood can make a difference, just as it can for the optimal cutter angles. If you spend your days cutting primarily one species of wood, and find that it makes a difference, it makes sense to use it.

My cutting is mostly scrounged, scavenged fire wood, or storm damage clean up, so the longer life of a good quality, properly sharpened, semi-chisel chain is more important to me than a speed advantage. If I was a production faller of doug fir, I might have a different story.

Philbert

I think you need to feed that poor dog, at least throw em' a bone :hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:

Scooterbum said:

I think you need to feed that poor dog, at least throw em' a bone :hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:

Click to expand...

well he's an american staffy i'll take him to mac donalds this afternoon HAHA

Philbert said:

I think that the type/species of wood can make a difference, just as it can for the optimal cutter angles. If you spend your days cutting primarily one species of wood, and find that it makes a difference, it makes sense to use it.

My cutting is mostly scrounged, scavenged fire wood, or storm damage clean up, so the longer life of a good quality, properly sharpened, semi-chisel chain is more important to me than a speed advantage. If I was a production faller of doug fir, I might have a different story.

Philbert

Click to expand...

just got some pine and it's green so i will do more testing it's a lot softer the the gum vidios to come

20 years ago my neighbor and local husky dealer loaned me a new hot shot saw with full chisel chain and it ran like a bat out of hell for a short time.
In the olden days we ran ran chipper chain. The new saw with full chisel ran fast for a short period of time but I was not able to get the chain sharp again, the chain was very hard. I have never been able to keep chisel sharp.
I would probably still be running chipper if was still available for the same argument.

deye223 said:

sam i think people think it is cutting quicker because the chips are biger if you look at the kurff it is wider with chizle and because semi has a narower cut it makes up for the speed with less wood to move cheers

Click to expand...

I just like it cause I spend less time filing, and more time cutting... Especially on the longer bars...

Semi chiesel stihl chain has served me well over the years.

I find the real difference comes out in green wood, chisel is definitely smoother and a good bit faster. I find bore cutting with semi chisel is grabby too. I'm mainly using semi chisel now because how much easier it is to maintain and how much longer the edge lasts.

Scooterbum said:

I think you need to feed that poor dog, at least throw em' a bone :hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:

Click to expand...

LOL. I was thinking the same thing. Stop playing with the saw and git that animal something to eat!



OP, thanks for the vids.

Well you folks have helped convinced me

I've been tempted to try some semi chisel but I have a whole bunch of chisel. This weekend while ripping some large pine (20"diameter). I had to stop and sharpen 3 times in 18 logs. This stuff has been laying around (not skidded or dragged) but still quite dirty. Now granted I was cutting long ways so I was actually cutting a lot more. But the minute I feel the chain no longer self feeding, I always file.

bigger saw splitting wood and you'll wonder "what is wrong with this crap"? Did'nt know what semi was till my newest saw came with it. I had to push through the whole cut- till I knocked the rakers down. No more semi for my 24" bar saws but I do like it on the mighty 137E :msp_tongue:

I use mainly semi-chisel but when free hand bore cutting hardwood it gotta be super-chisel,easier to start the cut ,doesn't grab and wonder all and leaves a better/cleaner cut which in turn gives a better fitting post and rail

There are good and bad points with both chain types however far more positives for semi chisel.
In really clean wood for a bit of short term fun a well setup full chisel chain really rips but as mentioned by Sam etc in a real world work environment, particularly with low stumps cuts, dust, or even super hard hardwoods semi chisel wins hands down. Semi chisel is FAR more forgiving with even the slightest ground strike as well. I've run a reasonable amount of both and apart from the odd small saw that just cuts limbs etc my personally used full chisel stocks of RSC/A1-LM/LGX are being used up and not replaced.
I've mentioned it on AS before but I've even seen some of our clean, dead hardwoods damage the cutting points on new full chisel chain within a few seconds without hitting anything.
Also I believe that with a grunty saw the rakers on semi chisel can be dropped below a File-O-Plate level to get even faster performance but not necessarily smoother. Low rakers also make borecuts more difficult in hardwoods. I've put some videos up before of some aggressive Stihl RMC semi chisel tanning the pants off of out of the box RSC on a ported and pop upped Makita I owned.
Semi chisel isn't as slow in the cut as some people think and I can't help but feel the racing brigade who cut nothing but cants have had a fair influence on people's decision to demand nothing but full chisel

just about to post a part 2 in green pine 14" log man that stuff is soft