difference between semi chizle & full chizle not much ??

[MCW]

just about to post a part 2 in green pine 14" log man that stuff is soft

Yeah pine is funny - it is certainly soft compared to anything else we have. One wierd thing I've found though is that my 3120 struggles more in Pine with a 60" and .404" skip than it does in rock hard gum. I think it binds up the chain more in the cut due to larger chips and maybe even the sap.

 

[deye223]

difference between semi chizle & full chizle not much part 2

ok this time some soft wood it's pine and its green so here we go get ya stop watch out first up is carlton A3EP semi chizle 3/8 hand filed
[video=youtube;RU1zvbmdke0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RU1zvbmdke0&context=C3bfbe91ADOEgsToPDskKOnwpsUpzcj_ZJkwDCzVtf[/video]
and this one is stihl RSC full chizle out of the box
[video=youtube;_5xk6F7-QpE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5xk6F7-QpE&context=C33d3c36ADOEgsToPDskKsudLI0aJD0VFi-zMd5CAQ[/video]
ok for those who want to know the log is 14" the saw a MS 260

 

[WidowMaker1]

generally always use Semi-chisel in dead seasoned Hardwoods (Aussie eucalyptus) ...I'll use full-chis at times when felling green or cutting up clean green-ish wood or just for some fun and aggression ... but Semi keeps a better edge longer in Aussie wood (especially when the woods dirty, dead or burnt from bushfire's )

 

[WidowMaker1]

Yeah pine is funny - it is certainly soft compared to anything else we have. One wierd thing I've found though is that my 3120 struggles more in Pine with a 60" and .404" skip than it does in rock hard gum. I think it binds up the chain more in the cut due to larger chips and maybe even the sap.

maybe the kerf closes up a little in fresh pine due to the fibers expanding after there cut. possibly making the side of the cutter work harder on the top of the bar ,binding it up a little in extra long bars ?

 

[David (saltas)]

Pine does not want to cut as it is too soft and it will crush

If you don't know what I mean get a hand chisel

get some hard wood and some pine, try and cut a chisel width square out of the end of the lumber.

The hard wood will have shavings curl of it.

the pine will crush, and pull fibres until it tears and looks like XXXX

Different wood needs different geometry.


I reckon all those pulled and torn fibres are pulled into the kerf and increase the drag on the chain

 

[Stihlman441]

just got some pine and it's green so i will do more testing it's a lot softer the the gum vidios to come

Good stuff there Darren
I use both Carlton semi and full chisel,i use chisel on Pine and Cypress,Sugargum felling work and Semi chisel on everything else with skip over 25'' bars.
With clean thick barked Stringybark chisel chain also works well,try it one day and it will surprise you.:smile2:
I have found with pine and a well set up hand filed aggressive chisel chain the chips will come off as ribbons a bit like noodles.

 

[deye223]

Good stuff there Darren
I use both Carlton semi and full chisel,i use chisel on Pine and Cypress,Sugargum felling work and Semi chisel on everything else with skip over 25'' bars.
With clean thick barked Stringybark chisel chain also works well,try it one day and it will surprise you.:smile2:
I have found with pine and a well set up hand filed aggressive chisel chain the chips will come off as ribbons a bit like noodles.

gday andrew allready teyed the stringy thing before the bark is full of sand from all the plowing on the propertys i get wood on , but will try the aggressive thing .404 full chizle on the 460 got some 18" pine

 

[Log Hogger]

I've been felling dead ash trees so the wood is "clean". Full chisel cuts smoother than semi-chisel and it seems to cut faster but I'll have to make some videos to be certain. After about 10-15 cuts, semi-chisel definitely cuts faster, while the full-chisel is ready for a file. Three file strokes usually gives semi-chisel a razor sharp edge, whereas the full-chisel can sometimes wear out a file before it's sharp.

Green wood is another ball of wax, but I suspect the time saved in the cut with full-chisel is still canceled out by the extra sharpening time.

Best use I've found for full-chisel is selling saws, in a clean test log any saw will shine. Just be sure to explain semi vs full chisel so the buyer doesn't feel conned.

 

[chainsaw kid]

Nice thread/good info, Thanks!

 

[wyk]

You tailor the chain to the wood you are cutting.

 

[openloop]

What effect does top plate angle have when comparing the two? Say a chisel at 25* and a semi at 35*. As I understand it the more angle you give it the faster it will cut but will also dull quicker. So does 25* chisel = 35* semi????

 

[deye223]

What effect does top plate angle have when comparing the two? Say a chisel at 25* and a semi at 35*. As I understand it the more angle you give it the faster it will cut but will also dull quicker. So does 25* chisel = 35* semi????

So does 25* chisel = 35* semi. don't no about that but here when i cut dry hard wood like red & yellow box and redgum i make the top plate angle 25* it seems to hold a edge longer and the chain feels better in the cut. this is with semi

 

[o8f150]

i just bought a 100ft roll of carlton full chisel from Roanoker494,, i might cut 10 cords a year so it will work good for me

by the way john,, your pm box is full

 

[pgg]

regardless of videos and stop-watches and all that jazz, semi-chizel doesn't come within cooee of full chizel for ease of cutting, full-chizel is way more efficient and cuts thru way better compared to the clunky and blunt semi-chizel junk.

Especially noticeable when your saw is down a bit on cc's for the trees you're dropping. And oregon semi-chizel 3/8 is atrociously blunt from the box, it's terrible, don't even bother running it until you've knocked the drags down first. The stihl stuff is better but nah, semi-chizel is a tiring drag at the end of the day.

Why people are having to file their full-chizel all the time, sounds like greenhorn stuff to me, I can run a new chizel chain for two or three days before it's first sharpen, what the hell these people are doing is anyone's guess. BTW if you touch dirt you switch-off and sit down on your backside and re-sharpen there and then.

And remember a full-chizel chain only takes one burred cutter to drastically lose performance, and yeah, yeah, the semi-chizel doesn't suffer so much if there's a few blunt cutters but the stuff is blunt even when it's sharp, and you almost need an extra heavy bigger cc saw to power it through, it's almost as bad as safety chain. It's only saviour is that it's invaluable in sand country or volcanic ash/dust/grit/ dirt where a full-chizel becomes impossible to use

 

[tdi-rick]

I know the rest of the Aussies on this thread wont believe me, but Neil was telling me that when he was felling big old growth Eucs they used square filed chain and I can't recall what species, but no, it wasn't rock hard crap like the Box's.

Can't get much more full chiselled than that

 

[deye223]

I know the rest of the Aussies on this thread wont believe me, but Neil was telling me that when he was felling big old growth Eucs they used square filed chain and I can't recall what species, but no, it wasn't rock hard crap like the Box's.

Can't get much more full chiselled than that

yep i believe ya no reason not too i gather they were green not dry

 

[imagineero]

Not that much difference between full and semi if they're both round ground, and with rakers set correctly semi will self feed every bit as good as full. If you're going to square grind, then all bets are off....

As an aside, I trialled some of the stihl 3/8lp full chisel on my 200t. What I usually run is carlton nu semi chisel. The stihl chain threw some huge chips, but it was actually slower in the cut because it was cutting a much wider kerf. The cutter was also quite a bit bigger than on the carlton semi, almost looked like a full size cutter instead of low pro. The saw was less responsive with the bigger heavier cutters. I went through 2 of the stihl chains, and used them right down to the last sharpening. Ended up going back to carlton semi. Faster in the cut.

If you're looking for cutting speed then consider going down a chain size, especially on smaller saws. If you are running 3/8" on a 261 for example, then go down to .325 you will really notice the difference. Guys who have tried 1/4" really rave about the speed, but I dont see the chain/bar/sprocket available.

Shaun

 

[Chainsaw_Maniac]

What effect does top plate angle have when comparing the two? Say a chisel at 25* and a semi at 35*. As I understand it the more angle you give it the faster it will cut but will also dull quicker. So does 25* chisel = 35* semi????

I file to 25* with full chisel for everything. I have never liked semi.

 

[MCW]

Once again it does depend on the situation but a lot of clean, green timber forestry workers are using semi chisel in our hardwoods. Just not many manually felled hardwood plantations left I like the extra speed of a well setup full chisel chain in wood like pine or when limbing. When felling all day give me semi chisel.
Sadly though when it comes to chain choice I often wonder how many actual loggers have ever even tried a full range of chains to compare. I'll just do what Billy Bob does...

 

[RandyMac]

Hey Matt, you finally get a handle on the rash?

I have used a bunch of different sawchain, the only thing I can add is that a well filed chipper chain can usually out cut some glory boy's wishful filing on chisel.