Is it legal to tie into a cranes loadline? Where to find the right information on it

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jasonftccrane

jasonftccrane

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Im new to this forum and i know this subject has been discussed before but, Ive heard and read several answers and i was wondering if OSHA or ANSI or whoever has a page or website to tell me if riding a cranes load line is legal or not. From what ive read in the past and learned is that if you tie into the load line above the headache ball with 2 tie in points its ok. But i am just not clear on the subject because people say different things and if that is ok im just looking for proof of it. Also i hear that a new law from OSHA is that all crane operators must have a CCO certification by the year 2014, Whats your thought or comments on this?
 
the new tree care magazine has an article on this ill try to dig it up but to answer your question yes it is if you follow the ANSI standards.
 
I run into this a lot with different crane services. Yes, by ANZI standards tree workers are allowed to tie in above the ball. Most times it is the safest way when there is no viable tie with the work. I wish more operators and services would take the time to research the standards. Especially when a climber's safety often depends on it.
 
I often wonder why it is above the ball and not the ball itself with a good locking system. Honestly every crane outfit I see around here ties into the ball - which happens to be the way I was shown and taught. Not sayin it's right at all, which it apparently is not - just don't understand when the hook seems so smooth and rope friendly while above the ball seems so abrasive to a climbing line.
 
To tie onto above the headache ball you put a pruskit loop with a carabeaner and also a separate shackle so their is 2 points of tie into incase one failed , it's also rope friendly . On another note I've also heard ANSI is under OSHA and just because ANSI is ok with it doesn't mean that OSHA approved it ? is that true
 
jasonftccrane said:
To tie onto above the headache ball you put a pruskit loop with a carabeaner and also a separate shackle so their is 2 points of tie into incase one failed , it's also rope friendly . On another note I've also heard ANSI is under OSHA and just because ANSI is ok with it doesn't mean that OSHA approved it ? is that true
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it all depends on the situation if it is safer to be tied into the crane than the tree then they allow it. but if the tree is fine they can frown at it and possibly fine you. I've never had a problem with it and i always ride it. why waste time spiking up when you can take the elevator. theirs a lot of grey areas.

and no matter what anyone says people are gonna continue to do it just make sure your doing it safe. TIP to the hook itself can be dangerous for a lot of reasons. forget about the rope slipping out a lot of times i stay tied into the crane until the load is getting ready to be carried away. why because i can get super good body position and am not straining my back with a large saw up in a tree. common sense is key. this would be highly frowned upon if your gonna pick a piece that you feel you better get untied from the crane you probably should be taking a smaller piece.

you don't want your rope where the slings are get tangled causing you to get pulled out of the tree by the crane especially when climber and operator can't see each other.

i made my own way of hooking above the ball probably not legal but i feel really safe on it. ill have to snap a picture of it and post it kinda hard to explain made it out of bull rope and rolling caribeaners through a shackle

i also put small tack welds on the shackle above the ball it would have to be cut off theirs no unscrewing it.
 
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As a person who holds a Crane License in NY State let me splain it to you from my point of view.

My License, MY RULES backed by the machine owner's rules based on his insurance carrier's rules! If I can see the hook and you tie on the way it will play out is I lock the house, the boom and the lifting line as I dial 911 to have the Fire Department come out to rescue the mental defective entangled in my lifting line. There won't be any arguing about it!

If I can't see the hook and you tie into my lifting line the oiler or person spotting the hook better tell me right quick so I can lock the house, the boom and the lifting line as I dial 911 to have the Fire Department come out to rescue the mental defective entangled in my lifting line.

I'll also guarantee you that you and your company will go on a list of customers who will NEVER again get crane service.

Yes I do know you're the last of the cowboys, know everything there is to know about knots, shackles, slings, ropes, nonmetalic straps and of course the machine I'm sitting in because I HOLD THE LICENSE! You also know exactly what the hunk of wood you're about to load onto my machine weighs to the pound, what my boom angle is, how much I can pick at that angle and how much groundpressure I'll be putting on the outrigger carrying the majority of the pick. Again, I HOLD THE LICENSE!

I spent a few hundred hours qualifying to test for that License, and I ain't about to loose it for one pick that went down the crapper.

You don't like the way I do things? I HOLD THE LICENSE! Guess who wins the argument?

Fortunately there are plenty of cranes available to be bought thanks to the current lack of demand. Since you probably don't want to bother getting a License, I suggest you buy a truck mounted machine.

Best of luck to you.
 
Riding the ball is part of removing trees with a crane. Seems like everytime I do tree work with a crane I end up riding the ball at some point. I have never got a crane operator that had a problem with it. I use a crane to lanyard strap that I bought at american arborist for $67. It has a 2' length of 3- layered triple stitched nylon webbing. It has a shackle on the top with a screw on nut and cotter pin. The other end has a metal ring. I always put a auto lock biner on it with a petzel pully just because the pulley runs a little smoother.
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fdoberman said:
As a person who holds a Crane License in NY State let me splain it to you from my point of view.

My License, MY RULES backed by the machine owner's rules based on his insurance carrier's rules! If I can see the hook and you tie on the way it will play out is I lock the house, the boom and the lifting line as I dial 911 to have the Fire Department come out to rescue the mental defective entangled in my lifting line. There won't be any arguing about it!

If I can't see the hook and you tie into my lifting line the oiler or person spotting the hook better tell me right quick so I can lock the house, the boom and the lifting line as I dial 911 to have the Fire Department come out to rescue the mental defective entangled in my lifting line.

I'll also guarantee you that you and your company will go on a list of customers who will NEVER again get crane service.

Yes I do know you're the last of the cowboys, know everything there is to know about knots, shackles, slings, ropes, nonmetalic straps and of course the machine I'm sitting in because I HOLD THE LICENSE! You also know exactly what the hunk of wood you're about to load onto my machine weighs to the pound, what my boom angle is, how much I can pick at that angle and how much groundpressure I'll be putting on the outrigger carrying the majority of the pick. Again, I HOLD THE LICENSE!

I spent a few hundred hours qualifying to test for that License, and I ain't about to loose it for one pick that went down the crapper.

You don't like the way I do things? I HOLD THE LICENSE! Guess who wins the argument?

Fortunately there are plenty of cranes available to be bought thanks to the current lack of demand. Since you probably don't want to bother getting a License, I suggest you buy a truck mounted machine.

Best of luck to you.
Click to expand...

Yes, unfortunately there are many "been everywhere, seen everything", know it all owners out there. It nearly cost me my life over the Summer as I was removing 2 very large trees that had come over in a storm and were through the second story of the house. The trees were stacked on top of each other, the bottom tree being a large pine that had split in three sections. The operator was picking in the blind on the other side of the house. The house was structurally unsound due to the storm damage. When I made my first cut on the compromised pine the split section gave way along with the entire second story structure of the house. It collapsed underneath me. I had to bail to a lower level breezeway that connected two living areas of the house, bounced off of the roof of the breezeway and hit the deck. Had I have been allowed to tie into the ball I could have swung free and safe and not injured my foot in the fall.

You're right, it's your crane and your rules. I just hope the next time you call 911 it is not to come pick up a dead climber due to your ignorance and know it all attitude cowboy.
 
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ANSI has standards on approved ways to do it. You can buy the standard from Sherrill, I think it's 20 bucks. Per OSHA, a crane is not allowed to lift a person unless in a man basket or a bosun seat with fall arrest harness. However, tree trimming is exempt from the OSHA standards for cranes. So you must refer to the ANSI. At the end of the day though, OSHA can still show up to your job and cite you for whatever the hell they want, have fun fighting those fines. The problem is that some OSHA inspectors are either unaware of the rules or just don't care. This causes many crane owners and operators to make it their company policy to never allow anyone to ride the ball. I've gone round with my operator in NYS on this for a few years. He will now allow me to ride if there is no other feasible option. IE, I cannot get my bucket to the tree. However, I do not take advantage of this, and usually only get a ride up once or twice depending on the tree. Sucks, but it is what it is.
 
guess I still don't get why riding the ball would be any more dangerous then going up in a bucket. not trying to be argumentative, just trying to understand the reasoning
 
fdoberman said:
As a person who holds a Crane License in NY State let me splain it to you from my point of view.

My License, MY RULES backed by the machine owner's rules based on his insurance carrier's rules! If I can see the hook and you tie on the way it will play out is I lock the house, the boom and the lifting line as I dial 911 to have the Fire Department come out to rescue the mental defective entangled in my lifting line. There won't be any arguing about it!

If I can't see the hook and you tie into my lifting line the oiler or person spotting the hook better tell me right quick so I can lock the house, the boom and the lifting line as I dial 911 to have the Fire Department come out to rescue the mental defective entangled in my lifting line.

I'll also guarantee you that you and your company will go on a list of customers who will NEVER again get crane service.

Yes I do know you're the last of the cowboys, know everything there is to know about knots, shackles, slings, ropes, nonmetalic straps and of course the machine I'm sitting in because I HOLD THE LICENSE! You also know exactly what the hunk of wood you're about to load onto my machine weighs to the pound, what my boom angle is, how much I can pick at that angle and how much groundpressure I'll be putting on the outrigger carrying the majority of the pick. Again, I HOLD THE LICENSE!

I spent a few hundred hours qualifying to test for that License, and I ain't about to loose it for one pick that went down the crapper.

You don't like the way I do things? I HOLD THE LICENSE! Guess who wins the argument?

Fortunately there are plenty of cranes available to be bought thanks to the current lack of demand. Since you probably don't want to bother getting a License, I suggest you buy a truck mounted machine.

Best of luck to you.
Click to expand...

And you would go on the list of crane companies that would NEVER get any business from tree services.

yea, its your crane and your license, but ANSI has devoted much more in the way of qualified study than your couple hundred dollars of licensing and they say its safe in many situations.

Yes we are very capable of closely estimating the pieces which we rig using the green log weight chart which every working tree service truck is required to have on board under ANSI rules. We rig wood routinely more often than not without a crane using equipment with exact maximum break strength, working load limits, and cycles to failure. We have learned that a 650 lb log has the capability of generating over 7,000 lbs of force at the rigging point before it hits the ground if it is shockloaded.

Everyone else has hit it on the head, you must be tied in above the ball with seperate hardware so that your climbing line never has running contact with the parts of the crane.
 
superjunior said:
guess I still don't get why riding the ball would be any more dangerous then going up in a bucket. not trying to be argumentative, just trying to understand the reasoning
Click to expand...

primarily because the parts of the crane although they may appear to be smooth can tear your climbing line. Also the difference in the strength of the cables on the crane versus the strenth of your climb line -- if anything catches, you're the first to fall. Also because a you have no control of the operation of the crane like how you do when you are operating the aerial lifts.
 
tree md said:
Yes, unfortunately there are many "been everywhere, seen everything", know it all owners out there. It nearly cost me my life over the Summer as I was removing 2 very large trees that had come over in a storm and were through the second story of the house. The trees were stacked on top of each other, the bottom tree being a large pine that had split in three sections. The operator was picking in the blind on the other side of the house. The house was structurally unsound due to the storm damage. When I made my first cut on the compromised pine the split section gave way along with the entire second story structure of the house. It collapsed underneath me. I had to bail to a lower level breezeway that connected two living areas of the house, bounced off of the roof of the breezeway and hit the deck. Had I have been allowed to tie into the ball I could have swung free and safe and not injured my foot in the fall.

You're right, it's your crane and your rules. I just hope the next time you call 911 it is not to come pick up a dead climber due to your ignorance and know it all attitude cowboy.
Click to expand...

HAD you done YOUR job correctly YOU wouldn't have been injured.
Don't even claim the crane operator was any part of YOUR screwup.

You're right, I am ignorant of many things. I wouldn't even attempt to operate a tower crane because I don't know the machine. I damn well wouldn't attempt to take a load that was under tension either because I'm ignorant of how it is going to bounce when it is cut free.

Calling 911 to pick a dead climber up, no problem. He will get dead from his screwup, NOT MINE. If he's nice enough to leave the number for his next of kin I'll call them too. I have a lot of minutes available.

I don't tell climbers how to cut trees and I will NOT accept any climber telling me how to run my machine. I do not make the rules, the insurance carrier does. My LICENSE = MY RULES. I know why the rules exist.
 
I hold small and large telescopic license that's why we buy our own cranes. We don't like playing by other companies rules. If our operators don't like it thier is plenty in the un employment line. Waiting for a job.

Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk
 
crane use for tree work

fdoberman said:
Why is it so many monkeys who constantly chatter about double climbing lines want to ride a single lifting line? You got any idea what holds that ball on the cable?
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easy fella, we realize your a big time crane op with a new york state license. no one here is forceing you to work with climbers. just say no thank you, i don't lift climbers. relax, its not good for you to operate a crane in an enraged mental state. lighten up, were not impressed! LOL!
 
and if you use a friction saver to tie into a crane you are a dumbass and chances are you have no "right" to be using a crane in the first place.
 
OD, you rock.

As do the rest of the climbers in the know about crane work here. This dude is a Joker who has no business doing trees in the first place. Anyone can rig static loads of steel dumb ####. Crane work with trees is an an art and very lucrative. Too bad you're missing the boat on that one. I'm glad you're not lifting climbers. You don't have the brains for it.
 
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