How did I do?

[Rx7man]

Had a big poplar tree to fell, it was a hazard to my irrigation pipe...

Leaned the cat bucket against it, tied a cable on as high as I could get, and put a good bit of tension on it with a big tractor


Did my cut


I think it's the prettiest cut I've EVER managed


I want it *HERE*.. on the road




*plunk*


And here's the stump




Other than the evident (I live to tell the story), I think I did alright.. I'm getting better at this

 

[benjo75]

Looks good to me. It went where you wanted it to safely. That's the main thing. Just a couple of suggestions. Which you don't need since you got it right. I can't say anything about using a cable tied low on the tree since I used to do it with a skidder while logging. Never around anything important though. A throw weight and throw line will get your rope higher in the tree. I pull a 1/2 rope with the throw line, then. 3/4 will be pulled up with the 1/2. It doesn't take near as much of a pull since you're higher in the tree. Tied low, if the tree has enough back lean and or the wood is hollow or bad, it can be pulled off the stump. Then the tree goes where it wants. Looks like you liked an inch or two reaching all the way through with the saw. That could cause a problem. It can make it harder to pull and it can pull the tree to that side a little.

All that aside, looks like you did just fine. The tree is down and you and your irrigation pipe is safe. What is the deal with the rope tied around the stump? Good looking notch. Wide enough it doesn't close up before the tree hits the ground . 394 XP?

 

[Rx7man]

I had no way of getting the cable tied any higher, or I'd have gone more.. it had a little back lean, but not too bad.. just enough a wedge would not have done it.. As soon as I was halfway into my back cut it started spreading and moving where I wanted it to. I watched a bunch of videos on notching and falling.. so far it seems to have paid off.. I'm sure that as that tree fell the fibers all broke well before the notch closed, but the tree was going the right way by that time.

That rope at the base holds our intake bucket.. which is pretty much rusted out so at some point I'll have to replace and redo the whole works there.

Yep, 394 XP I built out of two saws.. got $50 into it.. ported it, really like that saw.. especially for really big rounds of firewood you don't want to touch, you just noodle it to size.. no splitting, no heavy lifting, just cruise right through it! I have a 064 I'm putting a big bore kit into which ought to be nice too and a little more nimble.. i have a 28" ultralight bar for it.. a 2100 I'm working on that'll get a 36" 404 bar, and a ported 044 I couldn't pass up for $45.. more saws than a farmer needs

 

[derwoodii]

looks ok to me only hopin you had a plan B uh oh escape route and a co worker safety back up
Felling with ropes cable and skidders is all good till sumthin goes astray right at the wrong time

 

[bigbadbob]

Thats a cottonwood tree.
Some people like to carve the bark.

 

[ropensaddle]

Ok well its cut it went where u wanted. That notch is a conventional and the notch is fine but it appears your back cut was placed under your notch "not good" when using conventional notch cut above the flat cut of the notch ! I usually kerf the bark a bit to judge back cut placement by scratching the bark two inches above the seat of notch all the way around to other side as a guide for back cut placement. Also if bar is too short a deeper kerf on the off side can prevent a peal as Ben mentioned. As far as cable placement you said big tractor, so I'm not as overly concerned as some might be on that issue. True a cable placed high gives more leverage however it also requires more follow up pull than a cable placed lower I find a cable placed at around 25 feet better if enough pretension can be utilized. I have did so many times with my 20 ton pto winch on back leaner's at 40 degree lean and felling completely against the lean! With enough pretension applied at 20 feet I seldom needed to apply more, normally it started to move with a 4 inch hinge and I then feather the cut if it kept moving i keep cutting. If it did not fall at 2 inch of hingewood I started the truck and horsed it on over which rarely was necessary!

 

[ropensaddle]

Thats a cottonwood tree.
Some people like to carve the bark.

Cottonwood is a poplar

 

[bigbadbob]

Cottonwood is a poplar

Thanks for that ,,I never knew,,,

 

[Rx7man]

Ok well its cut it went where u wanted. That notch is a conventional and the notch is fine but it appears your back cut was placed under your notch "not good" when using conventional notch cut above the flat cut of the notch ! I usually kerf the bark a bit to judge back cut placement by scratching the bark two inches above the seat of notch all the way around to other side as a guide for back cut placement. Also if bar is too short a deeper kerf on the off side can prevent a peal as Ben mentioned. As far as cable placement you said big tractor, so I'm not as overly concerned as some might be on that issue. True a cable placed high gives more leverage however it also requires more follow up pull than a cable placed lower I find a cable placed at around 25 feet better if enough pretension can be utilized. I have did so many times with my 20 ton pto winch on back leaner's at 40 degree lean and felling completely against the lean! With enough pretension applied at 20 feet I seldom needed to apply more, normally it started to move with a 4 inch hinge and I then feather the cut if it kept moving i keep cutting. If it did not fall at 2 inch of hingewood I started the truck and horsed it on over which rarely was necessary!

Thanks, that's really helpful (tips on the cut) I'll play closer attention to it on my next trees.. In the picture of where I wanted the tree to fall, you can see one of my next ones to come down

Tractor I used was a 1965 Ford county 4x4.. weighs about 7 ton so it was up to the task.. an old bruiser.. between that and the crawler that's about 25,000 lbs... I have an Allis HD6 with 25,000 lb winch on it but it needs final drive work before I can use it


Here's a tree that came down on its own last year.. the little JD350 had to grunt a little to move it around... for a small machine it does pretty good.. 38" at the base


Couple pieces sure squatted the truck down too

 

[ropensaddle]

Thanks, that's really helpful (tips on the cut) I'll play closer attention to it on my next trees.. In the picture of where I wanted the tree to fall, you can see one of my next ones to come down

Tractor I used was a 1965 Ford county 4x4.. weighs about 7 ton so it was up to the task.. an old bruiser.. between that and the crawler that's about 25,000 lbs... I have an Allis HD6 with 25,000 lb winch on it but it needs final drive work before I can use it
View attachment 569965

Here's a tree that came down on its own last year.. the little JD350 had to grunt a little to move it around... for a small machine it does pretty good.. 38" at the base
View attachment 569966

Couple pieces sure squatted the truck down too
View attachment 569969

That tractor looks like something made to pull trains lol bruser fo sho gatta watch snapping cable I bet! All in all you did fine good clean notch and if i had a dollar for errors in cuts I,ve made through the years i could retire ! conventional above, open face you try to cut right at the apex, humbolt at or just under. nice crawler too, I bet you have fun with that puppy

 

[Rx7man]

Can you clarify the term "Apex Dutchman"? I'll try and get a better picture of the stump from a side angle so the cut levels are more clear

I didn't reef on the cable, just set a good stout load on it.. the tree wasn't leaning badly enough I needed more than that.. as I said, it was just enough wedges wouldn't have done it.

Yeah, the crawler is a very handy tool.. I just looked up the specs on it and it has a peak breakout force of 10,000 lbs, I've dug up and rolled some mighty big rocks with it.. and it was *just* able to lift the root ball of that big fir tree, but it really groans when you work it that hard

 

[ropensaddle]

Can you clarify the term "Apex Dutchman"? I'll try and get a better picture of the stump from a side angle so the cut levels are more clear

I didn't reef on the cable, just set a good stout load on it.. the tree wasn't leaning badly enough I needed more than that.. as I said, it was just enough wedges wouldn't have done it.

Yeah, the crawler is a very handy tool.. I just looked up the specs on it and it has a peak breakout force of 10,000 lbs, I've dug up and rolled some mighty big rocks with it.. and it was *just* able to lift the root ball of that big fir tree, but it really groans when you work it that hard

I put comas in, after looking I seen how i sounded! by apex i mean where the angle cut and flat cut meet! Dutchman is upside down conventional sometimes called a lumberman's notch and open face both cuts are 45 degrees used mainly to keep the log on the spar longer. I use openface to pull back lean trees against the lean so the notch does not close before I want it to. I really don't think you were far off on your cut and with poplar was not that problematic however; cutting a red oak it can split before hinging or ash etc"trees known to split"!

 

[BC WetCoast]

I think most people refer to a notch where the flat is on top as a Humbolt. To me, a Dutchman is where the notch cuts don't meet properly (accidentally or an purpose) and can cause the tree to swing as it falls.

 

[ropensaddle]

I think most people refer to a notch where the flat is on top as a Humbolt. To me, a Dutchman is where the notch cuts don't meet properly (accidentally or an purpose) and can cause the tree to swing as it falls.

Wow doing a search it seems a dutchman is actually what I always called a step notch where you flatten your angle cut a bit near the apex and a wing dutchman is where its tapered a bit. I think your correct on the humbolt I rarely use any notch other than conventional and open face. I did all sorts of experimental cuts in my first 5 years from slants to steps to in between even bores but I have found it not necessary then or after.

 

[Rx7man]

the problem with information on the internet is it seems to always be conflicting... I get the logic of having the back cut a little higher to prevent the tree from kicking out, same goes with the flat part of the face cut on top..

But then I get videos like this, that say you have to have the two cuts meet exactly



I am sure it depends a lot on the wood and its characteristics.. if it's one that splits really easily, an also how far it has to control the tree... Just from the thumbnail of the video, it looks like it's wood that splits and barberchairs easily which might be a reason to have the two cuts meet at the same level... if you're likely to get hung up and the danger of the tree kicking back increases, then having the back cut higher starts to have advantages as well.

 

[ropensaddle]

the problem with information on the internet is it seems to always be conflicting... I get the logic of having the back cut a little higher to prevent the tree from kicking out, same goes with the flat part of the face cut on top..

But then I get videos like this, that say you have to have the two cuts meet exactly



I am sure it depends a lot on the wood and its characteristics.. if it's one that splits really easily, an also how far it has to control the tree... Just from the thumbnail of the video, it looks like it's wood that splits and barberchairs easily which might be a reason to have the two cuts meet at the same level... if you're likely to get hung up and the danger of the tree kicking back increases, then having the back cut higher starts to have advantages as well.

Yes but rx7 the higher part i am not getting through internet I'm getting it straight out of chainsaw manuals and foreman manuals! pertaining to conventional notch. After seeing that video hinge thickness should always be maintained whether its above below or even matching. I have seen many cutting too fast on the end of back cuts and going above has little to do with that. That is also a tad higher than 2 inch more like 3 to 4? Yes lots of conflicting info out there for sure, I stick with what my 32 years in the industry has taught me. I realize there are many ways to skin a cat but I only used two consistently without fail 32 years near power and homes.

Here was one, still just a conventional used and I'm very certain barberchair was likely but the winch and another trick with a ratchet binder made it uneventful! Humorously this hazard fell in a sand trap on a golf course making it a hazard in a hazard but it had to be felled that direction to miss sprinkler heads!

 

[Rx7man]

wow, that is an ugly one!

Here's a video that is a bit a long watch, but the guy explains it pretty well, though pretty much only deals with the open face notch

 

[Rx7man]

I do see your point.. they went far too deep in the back cut which is a very big reason the tree (stump) fell the way it did and had no support, and they went VERY high on it too... thanks for pointing that out

Next tree will probably be fallen uphill and I will use a humboldt cut to help prevent it from coming coming off the stump, if lean permits doing it that way as I have no good place to put a winch on it.. I should have more for you tomorrow evening

 

[BC WetCoast]

In BC, the Humbolt has to be used in the logging industry. Primarily it was financial, as the government stumpage is paid on the scale, and someone calculated that the conventional notch reduces the log value by 2% (a big deal, when the provincial cut is 70 million cubic meters).

The 2" step up on the back cut from the notch apex is to prevent the butt from sliding backwards off the stump.

 

[treebilly]

With a low tie in point on a back leaner it is acceptable for the back cut to be below the notch. It keeps the tree from sliding out from under itself.
I prefer to come in even on my back cut. It's easier to judge hinge thickness.
Leaving stump shot( coming in above) does help with the butt sliding back but I don't count on it. Once the tree starts going and is committed I get the hell out of dodge.