Nielsen K50 vs. Oregon 511a Sharpener

[LumberMaster]

I'm trying to decide on which sharpener would be a better buy. My guts tell me to go with Nielsen K50, even though, it's an older model, but it's built to last. I want to hear from others who have experienced, using either one or both.

I know Oregon 511a is an older version of Oregon 511ax, made in Italy, like Tecomec FL 136. The price for used Nielsen K50 and Oregon 511a are around $200 dollars. Would you consider that a good price range? For a new Oregon 511ax, I know the going price is around $320-$350.

I want to know how much Nielsen K50 cost when it was brand new back in the old days. Was it from the 1970's? Can anyone give me an idea of how much it was worth and what era it's from?

Any suggestions and opinions would be greatly appreciated. Thank you, lumber folks!

 

[mtngun]

The 511a is quite a bit different than the 511ax. The 511ax has a fancy self centering vise. It works well, but is fragile. The 511a has a simple clamp vise. It's rugged, but perhaps not as accurate as the 511ax.

I think the 511a is out of production, but Northern Tool sells a chinese clone. There are many threads on the NT grinder.

No experience with the Nielsen. Several Nielson grinders turned up in an AS search, but no K50's.

 

[LumberMaster]

Yeah, I heard about 511a not being as accurate as 511ax. Mtngun, Are u saying 511ax’s center vise could break easily?

 

[devonhubb]

I just put a Nielsen grinder on the 'bay (shameless plug). The casting says it is a Model 50, but some of the literature says K50.

It came with a full chisel grinder that I bought. I've never used it. All of my chains are full chisel.

The tilt on the Nielsen grinder is fixed (not adjustable). The chain holder pivots from side-to-side & can be stopped at any angle between the stops, but the tilt on the grinder head is at a fixed angle.

It appears to be well built. All metal. No plastic.

 

[mtngun]

Yeah, I heard about 511a not being as accurate as 511ax. Mtngun, Are u saying 511ax’s center vise could break easily?

A number of people, myself included, have broken the vise base by opening the vise too far. It's a poor design in that regard.

On the other hand, once you understand the limitation, and train yourself to open the vise only 1/8 turn, then there is no problem.

 

[stipes]

So true...

A number of people, myself included, have broken the vise base by opening the vise too far. It's a poor design in that regard.

On the other hand, once you understand the limitation, and train yourself to open the vise only 1/8 turn, then there is no problem.

:agree2:

 

[gemniii]

Any suggestions and opinions would be greatly appreciated. Thank you, lumber folks!

AS has a super-secret chain sharpening forum.
http://www.arboristsite.com/forumdisplay.php?f=74
I encourage you to go there.

If you provide more info the members can provide better advice.
What are you sharpening?
How often?
Size of bank account?
What do you value your time at?
Why don't you just do it with a file?
Why not a Silvey? Or a Maxx? Or a [whatever]?
How important is a brand name?


As far as grinders go the NT grinder IMHO was a great bargain at $90 (on sale) vs (the next best alternative at the time) $300 for the Oregon. However last time I checked the NT grinder is now $140 and NOW Oregon has a "low end" Mini Grinder for $199.95

alternative to full sized bench grinders. Although it doesn't have the size and power to grind through piles of chain a day, it does an excellent job of sharpening chains for the casual user

http://www.baileysonline.com/itemdetail.asp?item=ORF+108181&catID=9758 at Baileys and they have free shipping this month for $200 orders.

So if your not "grinding piles" or harvester chain I would recommend checking out the low end Oregon.

Now MY experience was I went to the NT store to get the grinder and they were clearancing the Efco in my sig, a $220 saw, for $50. So I got the grinder AND a pretty good limbing saw for $140.
And with about 15 chains of use seems to work great.

 

[LumberMaster]

It came with a full chisel grinder that I bought. I've never used it. All of my chains are full chisel.

The tilt on the Nielsen grinder is fixed (not adjustable). The chain holder pivots from side-to-side & can be stopped at any angle between the stops, but the tilt on the grinder head is at a fixed angle.

It appears to be well built. All metal. No plastic.

It's news to me that k50 is not adjustable. So, from your opinion, will that post a problem if you need to sharp at different angles? It's the holder that makes a difference when it comes to angles? It's hard to find any opinions on K50, so I'd appreciate hearing your opinion.

Please explain more about full chisel. I'm new in this field so a picture would explain better. Thank you.

 

[mtngun]

Please explain more about full chisel. I'm new in this field so a picture would explain better. Thank you.

You don't need a special grinder for full round chisel or for semi-chisel. You do need a special grinder for square chisel.

 

[devonhubb]

It's news to me that k50 is not adjustable. So, from your opinion, will that post a problem if you need to sharp at different angles? It's the holder that makes a difference when it comes to angles? It's hard to find any opinions on K50, so I'd appreciate hearing your opinion.

Please explain more about full chisel. I'm new in this field so a picture would explain better. Thank you.

I was afraid that I wasn't making myself clear. There are basically two adjustable angles on the chop style grinders (the head tilts side-to-side and the chain holder swings from left-to-right.

Take a look at the rear of the Nielsen. See how the head tilt is fixed? I don't know on the Oregon grinder, but on the Maxx grinder, the head will tilt from left to right or anywhere in between. It is not necessarily a bad thing, as long as you don't feel the need to monkey with that angle.

The chain holder swings from left to right so that both cutters can be sharpened.

Here are some pics of my Simington grinder. Note the different wheel approach to the chain tooth.

 

[LumberMaster]

Thank you, Devon, for posting those pictures. Interesting! A different approach with Simington Grinder. Hmmm...How much does Simington grinder cost? Lucky you, you seem to have a god quality grinder.

 

[devonhubb]

Thank you, Devon, for posting those pictures. Interesting! A different approach with Simington Grinder. Hmmm...How much does Simington grinder cost? Lucky you, you seem to have a god quality grinder.

I think they are about $750 new.

 

[LumberMaster]

I think they are about $750 new.

Must be high-end quality. I might consider getting one down the road, but for now, I will settle for one that will do the job well. Thanks again.

 

[devonhubb]

Must be high-end quality. I might consider getting one down the road, but for now, I will settle for one that will do the job well. Thanks again.

They cost more than they are worth. I wouldn't think that they are much more complicated or costly to manufacture than an Oregon or Maxx grinder.

Must be supply and demand (not much supply & even smaller demand). :biggrinbounce2:

Like Mtngun said, you don't need this grinder if you are using semi-chisel chains.

I just like that hot-knife-thru-butter feeling that a razor sharp full chisel chain gives. :hmm3grin2orange:

 

[LumberMaster]

I think they are about $750 new.

Another question, does your simington grinder, from the look of your pictures, take care of depth gauge beside cutter? If I use Oregon or K50, whatever, it will not be able to sand down depth gauge, just plate cutters only? Cutters, is that what you called, where you sharp the edge on the plate portion?

 

[devonhubb]

Another question, does your simington grinder, from the look of your pictures, take care of depth gauge beside cutter? If I use Oregon or K50, whatever, it will not be able to sand down depth gauge, just plate cutters only? Cutters, is that what you called, where you sharp the edge on the plate portion?

Simington sells a depth gauge gizmo that is another forty bucks or so. It replaces the standard chain holder.

I believe that most, if not all, chop-style grinders can be adjusted to lower the rakers without any trouble. If not, just a couple swipes with a flat file is not much hassle. That is what I do & I own a forty dollar gizmo........

 

[devonhubb]

Here are the Depth Gauge instructions for the Nielsen grinder.

 

[BobL]

These instructions (once again) demonstrate that not all chain grinder manufacturers understand how to grind a chain.

If the original clearance is maintain thru the life of the cutter the wood-cutter-raker angle will get shallower and shallower meaning the saw will make smaller and smaller chips until it only makes dust. The raker clearance must be increased to more than the original to maintain the wood-cutter-raker angle.

The other more subtle thing about using grinder to lower rakers is that it creates a flat raker top with a distinct leading corner. As the cutter grabs wood the entire cutter link rocks back and forth and even the raker digs its way into wood meaning the leading corner can act as a resistance point using up useful engine power. Increasing the raker angle profile to lower the corner doesn't help because this makes the raker pointier so the raker digs in further. Ideally the leading corner should be rolled over with a file. In small soft wood this won't make any real difference but in wider cuts where every bit of grunt is needed it's worth doing.

 

[BIG JAKE]

These instructions (once again) demonstrate that not all chain grinder manufacturers understand how to grind a chain.

If the original clearance is maintain thru the life of the cutter the wood-cutter-raker angle will get shallower and shallower meaning the saw will make smaller and smaller chips until it only makes dust. The raker clearance must be increased to more than the original to maintain the wood-cutter-raker angle.

The other more subtle thing about using grinder to lower rakers is that it creates a flat raker top with a distinct leading corner. As the cutter grabs wood the entire cutter link rocks back and forth and even the raker digs its way into wood meaning the leading corner can act as a resistance point using up useful engine power. Increasing the raker angle profile to lower the corner doesn't help because this makes the raker pointier so the raker digs in further. Ideally the leading corner should be rolled over with a file. In small soft wood this won't make any real difference but in wider cuts where every bit of grunt is needed it's worth doing.

You can set the "clearance" to whatever you want. You're right you would still have to round the edge off with a file. In theory, using a grinder would be a very quick way to get all the rakers the same height. I have a Nielsen grinder not sure of model. It is fast and pretty well made, but I don't like the mechanism to adjust how much of the tooth to grind off I'd like more precision there. I've thought of modding the thing to use a micrometer instead for some nice precision regarding this-would take a little machine work etc. As is the grinder takes off more meat than filing so chains won't last as long. So unless you do alot of chains I'd stick to filing.
It is a fairly well made grinder though. For 200 bones I think I'd pass-got mine for 50 bucks. Just haven't really needed it that much for milling softwoods.

 

[devonhubb]

I just realized that by organizing my pics in photobucket that I inadvertently deleted them from this site.

Oh well.......If anybody wants them, let me know & I'll repost them.