Possible Log Splitter Cylinder ?

[bowtieman427]

New to this but my John Deere 5 is leaking bad so started looking on local CL and seen CNH G101725 cylinder for $95.00 This is a Case Cylinder made in USA. It is 4.5" bore, 64" closed and has 29.5" stroke. He stated they run these on there equipment at 2000PSI (not splitter) the shaft/rod is 2.5" diameter. The pins are 2 3/8". This is a big cylinder heavy duty I thick they weight 150#. Curious if anyone knew anything about these cylinders or knew where to find specs on them. Log splitter pumps run 2500-3000PSI various GPM. I would suspect that 2000PSI would be easy on parts but would like high volume greater then 16 GPM for this size cylinder to have some decent cycle time.
at 2000PSI would give me 14 tons
at 2500PSI would give me 17 tons
Do I need to get a pressure regulator to set at 2000PSI to run this cylinder safely ?
Does regulation take place in the valving ? If yes what valve is an easy one to set pressure.
Is this a good cylinder for a log splitter ?
I plan to get an I-Beam and build this myself. Found one for free 9' long 6" web with 3 3/4" flanges over 1/4" figure can box in and put larger plate on top.
thanks
Jim

 

[A.S.Woodchucker]

what I found out building a splitter was that unless you have everything laying around youy place for free or find it dirt cheap you can still buy a 22ton huskee cheaper. Notice I didn't say it was as well built or as heavy as a homemade splitter but I did say cheaper!

 

[Hddnis]

See if you can find out what machine they were for originally. I would be very surprised if those can't take at least 3000psi.



Mr. HE

 

[bowtieman427]

I think it is for a big loader. This is a Heavy Duty Case Construction cylinder. Guy selling it mentioned something about steering and they set to ONLY 2000PSI and that use 2250 as the max relief in the system. I am pretty sure it is 3/4" in/outs. 4.5" bore 2.5" rod. If I get I may want to cur the rod down. I think it would work well and is priced at $95.00 but I am unable to find specs on this thing as far as working pressure etc. It looks pretty serious to me. My other concern is if I even need seals etc to rebuild will I be able to get them. Perhaps I should buy a couple cylinders if I went this route to have parts if I ever needed them.

 

[UpOnTheHill]

Can you call the manufacturer or at least look on their web page?

 

[WoodTick007]

I think it is for a big loader. This is a Heavy Duty Case Construction cylinder. Guy selling it mentioned something about steering and they set to ONLY 2000PSI and that use 2250 as the max relief in the system. I am pretty sure it is 3/4" in/outs. 4.5" bore 2.5" rod. If I get I may want to cur the rod down. I think it would work well and is priced at $95.00 but I am unable to find specs on this thing as far as working pressure etc. It looks pretty serious to me. My other concern is if I even need seals etc to rebuild will I be able to get them. Perhaps I should buy a couple cylinders if I went this route to have parts if I ever needed them.

$95 for a $1000 cylinder? Just saying something ain't right.

 

[muddstopper]

Here is what the part cost new. http://www.messicks.com/partdetail/G101725.aspx, you are either getting a heck of a deal, or about to get scammed. If the deal turns out to be true, I want 4 of those cylinders.

 

[iowa]

Get one and cut the shaft shorter and have a 9/16" hole drilled through the shaft for hooking to your wedge. Or re-weld the knuckle on the end of the rod..

 

[bowtieman427]

I hear you $95 seems quite low, not sure why he is selling or what happen. He told me he has 26 of them to get rid of not sure what all happened. I was told by one vender I have to get hold of Case Construction supplier. The vendor sells them but for like $5k but know nothing about them. Is there a huge mark up on these. I know when we say construction grade of Govt, things go up 10-50x. Seller told me to call him if I ever head his way and we can meet so I can buy one or even 2x.
Now people are realizing what this is when I contacted him via email talking he sent me demensions and what not. I want it for a log splitter and was thinking wow this will make a great log splitter cylinder. Sadly would have have to start from scratch and not use on the John Deere % becuase I am looking for a cylinder for the JD, but this bad boy would probably work great. BUT will it be ok for 3000PSI ? Do you think 16 GPM would give enough volume and good cycle time. This is a 30" stroke nto typical 24". I Do NOT want to brake the bank.
I do not think it is a scam because when I informed him of the working pressures of a log splitter he came back with the pressures they use in there application on the loaders. Letting me know it is unknown to him if 2500-3000PSI is ok. Plus he offered to meet me when I get over his way or will let me know when he is coming my way. I think they may have ordered way to many and are just trying to get rid of them. You are right it might be a scam too not sure how it would play out.

WHAT I really want to know and not really looking at price will this work for a log splitter project without braking the bank on a decent cylinder ?

 

[Whitespider]

Likely that cylinder is only rated for 2000 working PSI with a 2500 max PSI... pretty standard on heavy equipment. To be safe you'd need to set your relief at 2250 PSI, which would keep the maximum it would ever see below the 2500, and keep working pressure around 2000. Although $95 sounds like a good deal, it ain't really the best choice for a log splitter... too massive and heavy, too low of working pressure, and the retracted rod extends too far from the cylinder.

I'd keep lookin' for something more appropriate if'n it was me.
*

 

[muddstopper]

Where are these cylinders located, I am really interested in at least 2 of them, might take more;
As for a wood splitter, a 4.5 in bore cylinder is pretty hefty. Even at 2000psi it would bust thru about anything you need to split. The extra lenght of the rod isnt a problem. Saw it off and reweld the rod eye. I suspect that the cylinders might indeed be rated at low psi, but its hard to tell from a pic. If its on a loader, they are usually used in pairs so force would be pretty considerable even at 2000psi.

A 4.5bore cylinder will extend at 3.9in per sec, it will retract at 5.6inches permin. with 16gpm flow. with a 30in stroke you would have around a 12sec cycle time. plenty fast enough for me. spitting force at 2000psi is almost 16tons. I would use one for a splitter at the price. I need two for a project, I already have a 5in bore splitter.

 

[triptester]

Pressure ratings for most hydraulic cylinders are 2500 or 3000 psi constant. Hydraulic cylinder are difficult to scrap they have to be disassembled before recyclers will accept them. My brother got me 5 4"x34"x2 Cat cylinders from the recycler he worked for that would not accept them unless they were disassembled.
So if they are obsolete or built to the wrong specs dumping them for $95.00 is saving them money.

 

[bowtieman427]

Triptester can you run the ones you got at 2500-3000PSI ? Did you find specs on the Cat cylinders you got ?

 

[triptester]

I have cut them down to a 24" stroke and they have been up to 3000 psi many times over the last 5 years. Here is a pic of the last one with the eye and part of the shaft removed. A 10" section of the barrel was also removed and the rear plug welded back in. The plates and rods are used for front mounting my cylinders.
Steel mills supply hydraulic tube with pre-finished I.D. and tested to 5000 psi. in up to 24 foot lengths. Cylinder manufacturers cut the tube to a desired length, attach the ends and rods.

 

[Hddnis]

I just went through a bunch of specs for case equipment going back about ten years and couldn't find anything with a pressure less than 3000psi, and many of the systems are up near 3500psi operating pressure.

It is possible that a steering circuit on an articulating loader or haul truck might be set lower to minimize frame stress. It would be really good to see if they can tell you what machine it went on.

As to finding seals, that shouldn't be a problem, seals are fairly cheap and easy to come by for almost anything out there. You send in the sizes you need and they show up in the mailbox like magic.

One thing you do need to be aware of is a dampener built into the ends, or on the piston itself, or some combination of both. They can be bypassed, but it requires at least opening up the cylinder. I'd say the chance is slim since the ports are very close to the ends, but there is a reason they are cheap and that could be it.



Mr. HE

 

[brenndatomu]

Construction equipment is built to take tons of abuse all day long for many years. The hydraulics, like the rest of the machine are overbuilt or under rated. Like triptester said, likely that cyl would take double the PSI before it actually popped. If I were you, I'd buy em all at that price. Heck, sounds like you could sell half of em here on AS right now!

 

[muddstopper]

Not sure about steering cylinders on big equipment, but I used a short steering cylinder off a forklift for the wedge lift on my 6way wedge wood splitter. I didnt even consider that it might not be rated for 3000 psi. My splitter is set at 2700psi at the relief. What happen is that raising and lowering the cylinder to the point it bottomed out allowed excess pressure to the cylinder. This caused the cylinder barrel to swell and allow oil to bypass the piston internally. Now instead of the wedge being raised and staying where it is set, it more or less just floats. I can raise it to do a split, but it will gravity fall back to the bottom position. At first i thought I had a bad cylinder, but it worked just great when it was first installed. Since the steering cylinders come in pairs, i had an extra one to use. I installed it and problem solved, for a few cycles, then it too starting drifting. Come to find out, the steering cylinders are only rated at 1000psi and have working pressures of about 600psi. Needless to say, I over pressurized both cylinders rendering them useless. Since I originally built the splitter to match those cylinders, I live with the floating wedge, but it is aggavating always having to raise the wedge for every split. On a large payloader, the steering cylinders might be rated for system pressure, but they might also have a relief or pressure reducing valve somewhere in the system just for steering. I have no way of knowing for sure, but before subjecting a steering cylinder to high pressure, I think I would be trying to find out what the pressure rating for that cylinder is. If you can tell the thickness of the barrel, it might give you a clue as to whether the cylinder can withstand high pressures. I think a 3000psi cylinder will have a 1/4in thick barrel, but dont take my word for it. I once saw a chart that listed barrel thickness in relation to pressure ratings. Of course there are variables to any chart, so do the research before buying.

 

[triptester]

Those cylinders may have been rejected by Case because they did not meet factory specs for some dimension .

 

[muddstopper]

Construction equipment is built to take tons of abuse all day long for many years. The hydraulics, like the rest of the machine are overbuilt or under rated. Like triptester said, likely that cyl would take double the PSI before it actually popped. If I were you, I'd buy em all at that price. Heck, sounds like you could sell half of em here on AS right now!

Yep.

 

[JeffHK454]

I wouldn't think twice about picking up a couple of those if I was getting into a splitter build, like said before cut the rod off and put a through hole for pusher or wedge and you're good to go.