Unusual tree rings
- Thread starter TrunkJunky
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Interesting, can't say I've ever noticed that. Maybe from certain chemicals in the ground water? Are all these examples from trees growing in the same area?
In between the annual rings there is a mountain of information stored that can be analyzed down to almost daily occurrences.
The ghost rings you've pointed out may be rainfall events, insect activity events where the tree ramps up defensive chemicals, in a conifer they may represent when nearby deciduous trees lose their leaves, fire events, etc.
It's not a subject I understand well so I'm just throwing this out there.
I recall a legal case involving Dr. Alex Shigo years ago.
A tree company had cut a wedge out of the wrong tree. To hide the damage they put the wedge back in and left it like that not telling the homeowner. Years or decades later(I don't remember) this tree failed and killed someone. Dr. Shigo was able to determine to within just a few of days when that cut was made. The tree company involved was on the site within that range of days. Shigo (as an expert witness) won the case and the tree company insurance paid.
The ghost rings you've pointed out may be rainfall events, insect activity events where the tree ramps up defensive chemicals, in a conifer they may represent when nearby deciduous trees lose their leaves, fire events, etc.
It's not a subject I understand well so I'm just throwing this out there.
I recall a legal case involving Dr. Alex Shigo years ago.
A tree company had cut a wedge out of the wrong tree. To hide the damage they put the wedge back in and left it like that not telling the homeowner. Years or decades later(I don't remember) this tree failed and killed someone. Dr. Shigo was able to determine to within just a few of days when that cut was made. The tree company involved was on the site within that range of days. Shigo (as an expert witness) won the case and the tree company insurance paid.
There were 3 of them, all within 20 ft of each other. Interesting story about Dr. Shigo. Dendrochronology is something I want to explore. The thing that interests me the most about those ghost rings is they do not emulate the growth rings of the tree. But they seem to have a pattern, sometimes bisecting several years of growth rings.
Yes, I noticed that. That's why I thought it might be some sort of chemical intrusion, especially considering how it continues through several years growth. Do the ghost rings go clear around or just on one side? If the latter, might it be the same side on all the trees?
The rings went all the way around on all 3 trees. I even thought that maybe it was some sort of bark contour memory. But how could that even be possible? I may never know the answer to these questions
Shirley...er...surely someone on this site has seen this and has an explanation.
To add to Buzz's question, do they appear the full length of the log or just for a portion of the length?
Just another thought. How is the weather there? Windy? Possibly lightening occurrences. Just throwing stuff out there. lol
These were the full lengths of the trunk at least I don't know about the scaffolding limbs because they'd already been processed. The weather here is temperate zone 9 and it's not necessarily windy we get an occasional wind storm 40 50 miles an hour I have been here about 50 years and we've had four or five times in that span that it reached 80 mph
Interesting problem. I wonder if you were able to split a piece of the wood precisely on one of these ghost rings, what you'd see. All I can think up is that something penetrating the tree yearly from the outside is the cause, because the normal annual rings remain intact. Another possibility is that the tree's sap was having an influence that caused this effect. Possibly a reaction to certain pollutants which caused the tree to bleed out in certain areas as a protective measure. Something else I've always wondered about annual rings: If someone could trace annual rainfall amounts back many years and compare the size of the rings on an old tree it might be possible to know what year each ring was formed. You think?
All these ideas and questions has got my mind thinking outside it's usual box. I removed these trees from my nextdoor neighbor's yard. So I am familiar with there daily environment. LawrenceK tracing the rainfall and comparing it to gross rings and ghost rings that's the part that's way out of my jurisdiction. But what you said about the pollutants let me give you some more information about its environment. We're in Northern California and these trees were within approximately 250 ft of the Sacramento River. Our groundwater here is about 15 to 20 ft below the surface. At my well-head it's actually about 11 ft. When you mention possible pollutants the first thing that popped in my mind was my leach field which is probably about 75 ft away (at it's closest point)from where these trees were taken out. The ground where the trees were taken out is about 5 ft higher from the ground where my leech lines end. I mean maybe some type of partial chemical compartmentalization. The most confusing part of all of this is the sporadic pattern and that's what really has me baffled. I want to thank everyone again for trying to help me with this. A couple years ago I reached out to a dendrochronologist at a university. Their reply was "it appears to be some sort of annual occurrence".
you might want to inquire with a few universities with forestry programs.
id love to see how some of that slabs out
id love to see how some of that slabs out
You know?... I felt really optimistic when I reached out to that professor. I did not do a lot of researching why I picked him or not he was just probably the first on the top of the list of the Google. I also realized at the time that professors are very passionate about the field of study that they are professing which can sometimes be a very narrow spectrum of the doctrine they are labeled under. That being said I wasn't sure I would ever see a reply at all and was shocked two weeks later to finally get one as generic as it was it was still a reply. It kind of took the wind out of my sails. Bare with me l am almost done. So I was going through my phone photos and came across the pictures again and thought wow I never did get an answer on this I'm going to try to put a more professional correspondence together and send it out to several universities and see what I get. Then it dawned on me, I am actually a proud member of forum group -ArboristSite-. If you are reading this, you know the rest of the story. If Dr. Shigo were still alive, I assure you I would try to present this to him.
TrunkJunky, I was searching this morning and came across this. It seems that your not the only one that has questions about "ghost rings". It is another forum from 2018. Edit: It's on the opposite side of the country. 
OT
https://www.lumberjocks.com/threads/strange-wavy-growth-lines-on-red-oak.291481/
OThttps://www.lumberjocks.com/threads/strange-wavy-growth-lines-on-red-oak.291481/
Would it be possible to take a thin cookie to a chemist to check for possible chemical contamination or reaction? Just curious.
OTGas chromatograph might give a clue.Would it be possible to take a thin cookie to a chemist to check for possible chemical contamination or reaction? Just curious.
Sorry, all that wood has already been thru my stove. I will check that link. Thank you
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