Getting Started with CSM Soon

Hello,
I've been reading stuff here for a long time but now have something to share (and ask about). I was about to weld up a mill then saw this one on kijiji and figured it was an easier way to go. I haven't taken an overall pic of it since I got it home so these next two are from the seller.


and here's one showing the rolling head and the Husqvarna 1100 saw:



The saw has a 36" bar with .063 .404 chain. The seller said it was a ripping chain but I'm not so sure:





I don't have a grinder (as of yet) but I'm thinking I'm going to take this chain to a local shop with a good reputation (Clark Code) and have him grind it into a ripping chain. The previous owner had (dramatically) filed down the rakers to try to get it to cut better so I'm hoping that that hasn't totally ruined the chain. For starters I'm going to be milling Eastern White Cedar and then some spruce, so all pretty soft stuff.

Any thoughts on whether I should take the plunge and change the bar/chain now? The bar needs a new tip and I have bought a .404 one but haven't put it on yet so I could swap it.

Well, I think that's enough for now. Need to get the rest of my hay baled today.

cheers,
Andrew

Andrew,

If you plan on doing a fair amount of milling, this would be a great setup to purchase especially if the price is within your budget. As for the bar and chain.... The owner obviously did do milling with the rakers cut way down, but not a good practice. Purchasing a new bar with proper ripping chain would be wise on your part. Many of the people here are using the 3/8" low profile chain and since you will need to buy both chain/bar, I would suggest that combo and it would work just fine on your Husky. Mtgun has done extensive testing with that combination of chain/bar. Do a search on Mtgun and you should find his test results, very informative.

Looks like a great find on a rail mill setup. Hope you buy it and good luck.

jerry-

One raker in your picture has been filed beyond redemption. If that's the only one, it'll probably be OK, but if there are numerous rakers like that, it's trash.

Lo-pro cuts faster but requires a 0.050" bar and special sprockets at both ends. I'm a big fan of lo-pro, but there is more cost and hassle to get set up for it.

I'd suggest a 3/8 tip and 3/8 x 0.063 ripping chain. Carlton, Oregon, and Laser all make ripping chain, though last I heard, there was a shortage of 3/8 x 063 Carlton.

Thanks everyone. In case I wasn't clear, I did buy the mill and am hoping to get going with it real soon. I need to mill up some base timbers for our greenhouse and a portable chicken pen.

mtngun said:

One raker in your picture has been filed beyond redemption. If that's the only one, it'll probably be OK, but if there are numerous rakers like that, it's trash.

Click to expand...

I'll give the chain a good look over and see what comes up.

mtngun said:

Lo-pro cuts faster but requires a 0.050" bar and special sprockets at both ends. I'm a big fan of lo-pro, but there is more cost and hassle to get set up for it.

Click to expand...

I've been working through your lo-pro topic. I'm a big fan of having things "right" so I'm all for setting up to go that way if needed. I could keep the current bar (and chain maybe) as a cross cut one for the odd time I need to cut up something big (which there are a few waiting for me to get to in fact).

I'll have to price out an appropriate bar. I tried to do some looking on the Bailey's site to find a bar that would take 3/8 lo pro. I'd welcome any suggestions. The mill is adjustable, but it's kinda built around a 36" bar so baring any real reason to change I'd likely stay around that size. I'm also a little grey on the drive side of things too. On the tips, it seems as though you need to thin one down, am I right? I have access to a mill and have a lathe so that should be possible.

mtngun said:

I'd suggest a 3/8 tip and 3/8 x 0.063 ripping chain. Carlton, Oregon, and Laser all make ripping chain, though last I heard, there was a shortage of 3/8 x 063 Carlton.

Click to expand...

So if I went this way I'd just swap the tip I just bought, but would still need to change the drive sprocket on the saw then? Right?

Thanks again everyone.

cheers,
Andrew

PS. Not sure if the pics all came through right. First time I viewed the post only the first picture showed up. After I opened the attachments they all showed? Is this how it worked for everyone?

Merrickville...........geez have been drunk there before........hello from the Valley.

You are going to have a very hard time finding .404 chain in eastern Ontario let alone any chain in the 0.063 gauge in any pitch. So your going to have to go 3/8 or .325 in .050 or .058.
Having a dealer grind a regular chain into cutting chain is just going to kill the chain in most cases, you will loose a third of the cutter and loose the temper in the chain........they just burn er up to make it to the angles you want in one pass vs......8-10 trips around with alot of dressing.

Welcome to AS, have some Rep.

AndrewMoizer said:

I'll have to price out an appropriate bar. I tried to do some looking on the Bailey's site to find a bar that would take 3/8 lo pro. I'd welcome any suggestions.

Click to expand...

The only source of lo-pro milling bars is Logosol, and only for a very few models.

Otherwise, any 0.050" x 3/8 bar can be utilized *if* you thin the tips of the nose sprocket. Some people claim that a standard 3/8 tip works satisfactorily, just depending on the brand/model.

Only way I know to thin the tips is with a raker file, which has a safe edge so you don't damage the bar. Kind of a pain, because the teeth are hardened steel, and it's not a precise process doing it by hand. Seems to work, though. The thinned tip can still be used with regular 3/8 chain.

Lo-pro drive sprockets are not readily available and are expensive if you can find them. Danzco was making a small run of lo-pro rim-sprockets. Otherwise, the only source is Logosol, and only for a few models, and only spur sprockets.

Some people run lo-pro with 3/8 drive sprockets, but I tried it, and it didn't work for me.

Which is why I suggested you slap on a 3/8 tip and run 3/8 x 0.063, if you can find it. It's simply cheaper and easier, even though it cuts slower.

First time I viewed the post only the first picture showed up. After I opened the attachments they all showed? Is this how it worked for everyone?

Click to expand...

I see 3 pics in your first post.

Thanks again for all the help.

Well I spent a bit of "quality time" checking out what I have and think I understand things a lot better now. Understand the drive side of the saw clearly and will order a new drive when I do my order as the current one seems pretty wobbly.

I was able to do a good comparison between the .404 chain I have, 3/8 regular chain and the .365 low profile as my Poulan Pro saw runs the low pro. It's pretty clear how the kerf gets smaller with each step along the way.

Apparently .063 3/8" ripping chain from Baileys is about 2 weeks away.

Finding a .050 36" bar to fit the 1100 is hard to do. It would be special order and about $150.

I also took a better look at the .404 chain I have. I don't have a Digital Angle Finder (DAF) but used my dial one (Thanks to mtngun for the topic explaining all that). Right now on the most filed down raker the Cutting Angle (CA) is in the 12° range. However, if the chain was ground back to about half the current cutter length as part of going to a more standard 10° top plate angle (think I've got the right term there) then the CA would be back in the 6° range (which seems to be the accepted norm).

So the upshot of all this is that I think I'll have this chain ground to this spec (while I ponder about buying a grinder for myself ... I figure buying the right tools is always a good idea) and try it all out. Given my first jobs are mainly making some cedar timbers the kerf width isn't a factor as far as wasted wood is concerned.

I'll keep the low pro thing in the back of my head but it seems that until I know that I need it it's likely easier just to choose the simpler route.

On the 3/8" chain front, if I remember right there isn't any difference in the kerf width between the various gauge chains is there? So I may as well stick with the .063 and just use my current bar.

I was also wondering about the possibility of attaching the new bar tip with a bolt rather than the rivet. Given that it's in the mill it doesn't really matter and then I could even use it for the mounting bolt rather than the current method that just pinches the bar end. That way I could switch over to the .375 tip real easily.

cheers,
Andrew

PS. Seems that I perhaps didn't do the first overall mill pic right, so here it is again (hopefully).

View attachment 187955

Thanks again for all the help.

Well I spent a bit of "quality time" checking out what I have and think I understand things a lot better now. Understand the drive side of the saw clearly and will order a new drive when I do my order as the current one seems pretty wobbly.

I was able to do a good comparison between the .404 chain I have, 3/8 regular chain and the .365 low profile as my Poulan Pro saw runs the low pro. It's pretty clear how the kerf gets smaller with each step along the way.

Apparently .063 3/8" ripping chain from Baileys is about 2 weeks away.

Finding a .050 36" bar to fit the 1100 is hard to do. It would be special order and about $150.

I also took a better look at the .404 chain I have. I don't have a Digital Angle Finder (DAF) but used my dial one (Thanks to mtngun for the topic explaining all that). Right now on the most filed down raker the Cutting Angle (CA) is in the 12° range. However, if the chain was ground back to about half the current cutter length as part of going to a more standard 10° top plate angle (think I've got the right term there) then the CA would be back in the 6° range (which seems to be the accepted norm).

So the upshot of all this is that I think I'll have this chain ground to this spec (while I ponder about buying a grinder for myself ... I figure buying the right tools is always a good idea) and try it all out. Given my first jobs are mainly making some cedar timbers the kerf width isn't a factor as far as wasted wood is concerned.

I'll keep the low pro thing in the back of my head but it seems that until I know that I need it it's likely easier just to choose the simpler route.

On the 3/8" chain front, if I remember right there isn't any difference in the kerf width between the various gauge chains is there? So I may as well stick with the .063 and just use my current bar.

I was also wondering about the possibility of attaching the new bar tip with a bolt rather than the rivet. Given that it's in the mill it doesn't really matter and then I could even use it for the mounting bolt rather than the current method that just pinches the bar end. That way I could switch over to the .375 tip real easily.

cheers,
Andrew

PS. Seems that I perhaps didn't do the first overall mill pic right, so here it is again (hopefully).
View attachment 187955

One more pic

Hello again,
seems the pic didn't display in-line and my attempt to edit the post and fix it caused the post to get deleted. Luckily I got it back (I think) so I'm not going to mess with it any further.

I did find a pic of the current tip setup with the bar pinched between the tip mount. Looking at it I think that running a bolt through the tip mounting stud hole shows a lot of promise, unless I'm missing something fundamental.

View attachment 187957
cheers,
Andrew

PS. Well I don't seem to be able to get this to display properly ... it's almost as if it's a "first picture" thing???

One more pic

Hello again,
seems the pic didn't display in-line and my attempt to edit the post and fix it caused the post to get deleted. Luckily I got it back (I think) so I'm not going to mess with it any further.

I did find a pic of the current tip setup with the bar pinched between the tip mount. Looking at it I think that running a bolt through the tip mounting stud hole shows a lot of promise, unless I'm missing something fundamental.
View attachment 187957
cheers,
Andrew

PS. I think trying to edit this post and the one above has borked the images. I don't have time to mess with it further right now, but will see if it's working later or just do things another way. Who knows whether this will work either.

AndrewMoizer said:

On the 3/8" chain front, if I remember right there isn't any difference in the kerf width between the various gauge chains is there?

Click to expand...

That's mostly correct.

I was also wondering about the possibility of attaching the new bar tip with a bolt rather than the rivet.

Click to expand...

That'll work. You can also run the tip without any fastener at all. The chain tension will keep it from falling out.

I'm getting an "invalid attachment" error message on your last two attachments.

Thanks again. Cheers. A.

Guess something I'm doing is causing the attachments to disappear. So I'm going to do this once and not mess with it.

View attachment 187958

View attachment 187959

The latest forum update changed the way we insert pictures, and I haven't figured it out yet, but I was able to insert you pics using .

mtngun said:

The latest forum update changed the way we insert pictures, and I haven't figured it out yet, but I was able to insert you pics using

Code:

{img} pic {/img} except use the square brackets, which it won't let me display.

.

... images ...

Click to expand...

Yup it seems once the attachments are "live" and you can get the right URL to reference them the IMG tags work every time. It's the attachment part that has me slightly baffled, it seems to work sometimes while you're previewing the post, and other times I can't get it to show me the final static URL to the pic. Then if I try to edit things the attachments (and sometimes the post) disappear into space. I'm sure it'll work itself out for me.

Anyway, thanks again for the help and I hope to get the chain re-ground in the next day or two and give things a try. I like the idea of the non riveted (or bolted) tip, it'll make trying out different options much easier.

Well, now I need to go fix the hay rake so I can get the hay I have off the ground before it rains later (I hope) tomorrow. We have a few rainy days forecast so that should give me time to get to some other things like this mill.

cheers,
Andrew

Bought a grinder

Bought a grinder yesterday from TSC. I think it'll do ripping chain angles ... if not it's going back. So I need to do a bit more searching on here on grinding threads and then give it a go reshaping the .404 chain I already have.

Hopefully I can have a few test cuts done today or tomorrow (more likely).

cheers,
Andrew

I like grinders.

Suggestions on angles, etc.

I've been trying to find good topics and grinding ripping chain with a grinder but have not been too successful. Would appreciate any suggestions or pointers.

I think I'm going with the 10° top plate filing angle, but am not quite sure on the best to use on the others for use in White Cedar.

I'll keep you posted with my progress.

cheers,
Andrew

AndrewMoizer said:

I've been trying to find good topics and grinding ripping chain with a grinder but have not been too successful. Would appreciate any suggestions or pointers.

Click to expand...

Most CSM-ers use a 10 degree top plate. Will Malloff preferred 0 degree.

Factory ripping chain has a 60 degree hook angle, give or take. Will Malloff preferred 40, which cuts faster but rougher.

The tilt angle, if your grinder has a tilt, doesn't seem to matter much whether it is 0 or 10.

mtngun said:

Most CSM-ers use a 10 degree top plate. Will Malloff preferred 0 degree.

Factory ripping chain has a 60 degree hook angle, give or take. Will Malloff preferred 40, which cuts faster but rougher.

The tilt angle, if your grinder has a tilt, doesn't seem to matter much whether it is 0 or 10.

Click to expand...

Makes sense. The instructions on the grinder are pretty shaky. Judging by a pic I just saw I think this grinder is an offshore knock-off of the Oregon one. It will do the tilt angle by moving the chain vice and the table in it recommends 10 degrees FWIW. I'm assuming that you have to change the tilt angle for sharpening one side of the cutters and then the other? Maybe for starters I'll go with 0 then and then not have to worry about it. And then give this thing a whirl to see what happens.

I think the main thing is to grind enough of the tooth away to get the cutting angle back under control with the pared down rakers.

I need to get down to see my Dad as he has a copy of the Maloff book he bought a long time ago. And to do that I need to fix the car brakes which I'm about to do now. There seems to be a never ending parade of things to get to these days.

cheers,
Andrew

AndrewMoizer said:

I need to get down to see my Dad as he has a copy of the Maloff book he bought a long time ago.

Click to expand...

At one time there was a bootleg copy of Malloff's book floating around on the web. I haven't searched lately to see if it's still out there.