Getting Started with CSM Soon

[BobL]

I like grinders.

I like em to fix rocked chains otherwise I'm a fan of files.

Andrew, you rakers appear to be all over the place on that chain and will contribute to excess vibe as well and roughening the cut more than necessary.
Here's my assessment of the rakers I can see.


The way I would get that chain back into shape is as follows.

1) Measure the cutter length of all the cutters.

2) Pick the cutter with the shortest length and file it to 10º top plate - remeasure the length of that cutter and then fill ALL the cutters to that length using a 10º top plate angle

3) Now measure the raker angles.

4) If more than 3 or 4 rakers have raker angles greater than 7º then you need to keep shortening the cutters until you achieve this. Ideally ALL the rakers should be under ~7º but as mtngun pointed out one of the rakers is well and truly shot so that is impossible on that chain. I've found that a 42" chain can handle a few rakers that are shorter than the others provided they scattered around the chain (ie not all consecutive). If those few cutters end up not having a 10º top plate filing a don't worry about it.

5) I would then leave the rakers and sharpen only by filing the cutters until the raker angle is around 6º (you really have to work out what rake angle suits your setup)



Oh yeah, and round the rakers, unrounded rakers just adds to vibe which eventually shakes saws, mills and operators to bits

 

[mtngun]

Pick the cutter with the shortest length and file it to 10º top plate - remeasure the length of that cutter and then file ALL the cutters to that length

I'd grind them to length.

 

[AndrewMoizer]

Thanks, grinding tomorrow

I got the grinder bolted down and did a few quick passes on a junk 3/8" chain to get acquainted (then had to get cleaned up to head out of the "out-laws" for dinner). The grinder seems to run very smoothly and I'm optimistic.

The other day I did some measuring and I'm pretty optimistic that even with the worst of the rakers I can get to the 6-7° cutting angle once I've ground back about half the tooth length. I figure I'll just take it slow and sneak back a bit at a time to make sure I don't kill the temper in the teeth.

I am going to grind them, not file them (sorry Bob ;-), although I did buy some new files yesterday too. Prior to this I've done all my sharpening for the past few years with my dremel freehand and diamond cutters that Lee Valley Tools sell. It's fast and effective. I always found the files vibrated, but I'm inspired to give them a go again after watching a few You-Tube videos in the past few days. Things also got a lot better once it dawned on me I had to file down the rakers now and then too. Doing that really brought my Husky 50 back to life on a chain that was 3/4's filed away on the teeth. Given that I was using a depth gauge I now realize I probably need to grind them down more.

Back to the grinder, it seems to be a pretty good copy of the Oregon 511 so I'm reading the manual for it right now. It seems to be explaining the vice tilt better so I'll try that in the morning. I'll post some pics of the 3/8" test chain before having at the .404 one.

Also

... I've found that a 42" chain ...

is the norm that this is a chain 42" long, or one for a 42" bar?

Thanks again for all the help, advice, and experience.

cheers,
Andrew

 

[BobL]

I'd grind them to length.

When we went camping with a group of other families a couple of years ago we arrived at the campsite mid-afternoon and even though it was cool and showery the guys were dead keen to go fishing on a nearby windy estuary. I declined, and set up my 60" bar on my portable worktable under the canvas porch of our campervan. I built an open fire and cracked a couple of cold ones while hand filing the cutters on a couple of new 60" loops back to a 10º top plate angle. Call me weird but hand filing and having a few beers is my idea of a good time. BTW the fresh fish the guys caught for dinner was excellent!

 

[AndrewMoizer]

When we went camping with a group of other families a couple of years ago we arrived at the campsite mid-afternoon and even though it was cool and showery the guys were dead keen to go fishing on a nearby windy estuary. I declined, and set up my 60" bar on my portable worktable under the canvas porch of our campervan. I built an open fire and cracked a couple of cold ones while hand filing the cutters on a couple of new 60" loops back to a 10º top plate angle. Call me weird but hand filing and having a few beers is my idea of a good time. BTW the fresh fish the guys caught for dinner was excellent!

OK, OK, you're convincing me to try hand filing again for sure :msp_smile:. Maybe I was always using junk files before, they just never seemed to be cutting like a "proper" file should. There certainly is something satisfying about sharpening and making something "right". I enjoy sharpening our kitchen knives using a water stone for instance. Nothing like a good edge on a (good) carbon steel blade.

However for today, the new grinder is going to be the first tool I reach for:msp_biggrin:!

cheers,
Andrew

 

[BobL]

However for today, the new grinder is going to be the first tool I reach for:msp_biggrin:!

You know that song " . . . in these shoes? . . . . I don't think so"

Well on your chain, even I wouldn't use a file :msp_smile:

 

[hamish]

Prior to this I've done all my sharpening for the past few years with my dremel freehand and diamond cutters that Lee Valley Tools sell. It's fast and effective. I always found the files vibrated,

The files vibrated or the chain did??? You using files rigged up to a drill or dremel to sharpen? Or did you just have an massive raker and overall sharpening issue to resolve?

 

[AndrewMoizer]

Prior to this I've done all my sharpening for the past few years with my dremel freehand and diamond cutters that Lee Valley Tools sell. It's fast and effective. I always found the files vibrated,

The files vibrated or the chain did??? You using files rigged up to a drill or dremel to sharpen? Or did you just have an massive raker and overall sharpening issue to resolve?

Sorry Hamish, I guess that was pretty confusing. :blush: Using the dremel to sharpen I think I've always used the LVT burrs. Before that I used a file and found that the chain tooth seemed to vibrate in the bar and wouldn't cut "smoothly" a lot of the time. I guess if I'd had something to clamp the chain into life might have been better. Now and then I think it went fine (my memories pretty shakey:msp_unsure. I've been using the burrs since LVT first starting stocking them maybe a decade ago or so (probably longer). Prior to that I didn't use the chainsaw all that much as it was before we had the farm so I didn't have to (or want to) sharpen that much. At that time my only saws were a Mini Mac and an a Black & Decker electric one.

You know that song " . . . in these shoes? . . . . I don't think so"

Well on your chain, even I wouldn't use a file :msp_smile:

Bob, we're on the same page here:smile2:!

Spent best part of two hours grinding the chain tonight (before coming in for a late supper that I've just finished), well that and getting the grinder set up and a few wrinkles ironed out. I've ground back over half the tooth and the cutting angle is coming into range. The cutters are now just under a 1/4" long, so one way or another I'll be done with this chain before too long regardless :LOL:. At this length there are still a few rogue cutters with a CA of 8-10, but most are 6 +/- 1, and a few are down to 4. Below is a lousy picture of the chain taken with my phone because our camera is MIA right now. Basically all you can see is that the cutters are a *LOT* shorter than they were!

The left and right cutters aren't the same length as I went with the 10° offset filing so I have to switch the vice around for left and right teeth. Once I get them close then I'll make sure they're that both sets of teeth are the same length and then touch up the rakers and then give it a shot.

Overall I like the grinder, although I'm having a bit of a problem with a wire edge on top of some of the teeth. I suspect that I'm just taking a bit too much off. I'll try dressing them up with a diamond hone before the next round of grinding. If all goes well, and if Mr. Murphy isn't in too bad a mood there's even a chance that I might make some sawdust tomorrow. :smile:

cheers,
Andrew
View attachment 188357

 

[BobL]

You'll also need to clean out the gullets on some of those cutters. Not quite so easy to do with a grinder - you might have get out a file

 

[AndrewMoizer]

You'll also need to clean out the gullets on some of those cutters. Not quite so easy to do with a grinder - you might have get out a file

I'll start psyching myself up for that now ... then I might be able to bear it in the morning !

Not much to report for today except that I turned up a spacer to replace the tip rivet. Can through bolt the tip to the saw frame too and will be able to swap tips easily.

cheers,
Andrew

 

[AndrewMoizer]

Progress again (at last)!

Scary to realize my last update was over 3 weeks ago :blush:.

Finally finished grinding the chain yesterday. The cutting angle now seems to range between 4 and 7 (or so) degrees. I was setting up to grind the rakers, but the wheel shattered as soon as I tried to dress it :msp_sad::msp_angry:. So I decided to just leave them as they are for the first test. I'll touch them up later on.

Tonight I got the saw tip on, drilled another hole in the tip (went OK with cobalt drills) so I can just bolt the bar end to the mount rather than clamping it, using this new hole and the rivet bolt adapter I made (see above). The saw end is still going to be clamped for now so I'm not gaining much convenience. Just seems like a better way to go. Plus it will allow me to change tips if I decide to go 3/8 pitch.

Got the bar back on the saw but the chain didn't seem to run free once it was tensioned. So took things apart, took off the clutch and examined the rim sprocket. Turned out there was a piece of metal jammed into the bottom of one drive slot. I suspect this might have been from the previous tip which was largely non-existent. Anyway, with that cleaned out and back together everything was much better.

Tried to start the saw, but the fast idle didn't seem to be grabbing so I took the handle apart to see what was up there. A frustrating hour or so later I had it back together and it seems to work now. The trick was to use rare earth magnets to hold the pivot pins in place for the trigger and lockout (or whatever it's called).

Tried again, and with some new gas it fired right up:smile2:. So tomorrow I'm going to get it mounted back on the track and see if I can actually cut some wood. I need a few bits of cedar to build a new portable chicken coop, so that's the first objective.

cheers,
Andrew

PS. Sorry, still no pics. Our digital camera is still MIA:msp_sad:

 

[AndrewMoizer]

First Cuts

Some (limited) success to report. Got the saw mounted and have made a few cuts. The log I used for the test cuts turned out to have more sweep (curve) in it that I thought so it was hard to get square. I was really just playing, although I was/am hoping to end up with some smaller dimensional lumber to use for the next portable chicken coop.

Here's a few pics.

I need to do something better for log dogs. The current ones I guess worked well enough for the previous owner who was cutting larger pine trees.

The saw runs OK, although I could bog it down on only a 6-8" cut in white cedar. I suspect it needs a good tune up/overhaul.

The starter spring I think now needs replacing, or I need to re-bend the outside edge. I'm hoping the IPL will shed some light on how things are supposed to be. So off to find it on the other computer.

cheers,
Andrew

 

[hamish]

Andrew,

Your 1100 needs a good evaluation if its bogging in 6-8" cedar, last made in 1975 ish most parts for a 1100 are no longer available from the dealer (spark plug and a few other little things are), and NOS aftermarket are hard to come by and very costly.

What size of logs do you plan on milling? Looking at your pics the carridge head would easily adapt to mounting a smaller powerhead/bar configuration with a single mounting point.

Is the bar tip mounting point already adjustable? It kind of looks to be from your pics.

Jeremy

 

[AndrewMoizer]

Andrew,

Your 1100 needs a good evaluation if its bogging in 6-8" cedar, last made in 1975 ish most parts for a 1100 are no longer available from the dealer (spark plug and a few other little things are), and NOS aftermarket are hard to come by and very costly.

What size of logs do you plan on milling? Looking at your pics the carridge head would easily adapt to mounting a smaller powerhead/bar configuration with a single mounting point.

Is the bar tip mounting point already adjustable? It kind of looks to be from your pics.

Jeremy

Hey Jeremy,
that's what I was thinking. I got it back together late this afternoon, heated the end of the spring and bent it the way it should have been (as best as I could tell from the IPL's I have).

Today the saw seemed to run OK, but I think not with the "ferocity" that I suspect it's supposed to. I've seen lots of talk of needing D handles and the like because of compression, but there's not a real sense of any need with this saw right now. I'll check the compression if the gauge I have from my Austin Mini days will fit and work.

The immediate target for logs to mill are cedars. I need a bunch of 4x6, 6x6, or something like that for a greenhouse base, plus some smaller stuff for a few other projects (like another portable chicken coop). I would guess that all the trees are in the 12" diameter or so range, probably a few bigger ones. There are also some larger spruce trees, perhaps up to about 2 feet (I haven't really had to measure any of this stuff before so I don't really know for sure) that are candidates for turning into lumber too.
I also need to put a flat on a bunch of poles to use for rafters. I'll need to do something about extending the bed for some as they'll need to be 18', maybe 20' long. I'm good for just under 16' right now.

Adapting the frame to other saws wouldn't be too hard. The tip end is adjustable. I turned it around for a quick try with the bolted tip rather than the using the clamp setup. Making a whole new mount could be as simple as just winding the one threaded rod joiner (drawing a blank on the "official" name of them right this second) and putting on another with a different mount.

My next "biggest" saw is a Husky 50, which is certainly at the low end of what would be needed. I have a 20" bar I could put on it. My original plan was to make something up to use this saw, and see how it went. Then I saw this one for sale and figured it was easier just to buy it. Remains to be seen whether that's the case.

I do need to do something with all the log hold downs (set works?). I suspect what's there worked fine for larger stuff, but it leaves a lot to be desired, at least in my rookie experience so far. I need to get the mill off the trailer, it's just there from picking it up. With it up on some concrete blocks (at least) the two posts could go down easier. I think I'm just going to build a wooden platform to sit on top of the steel and raise the logs up into range. Get it close and then just run the saw down to make it all flat.

Anyway, I made my first couple of 2x3's today before I had to get to a few other things. Kinda got stymied trying to figure out how best to use the bit of the log I had left (kinda "surrounded by insurmountable opportunities" as Pogo said).

I'm cautiously optimistic.

cheers,
Andrew

 

[hamish]

Andrew,

Your 1100 should be ripping thru 12" cedar like no tomorrow......I'm thinking your Husky 50 has as much unmph as your 1100 right now. I love old saws, dont get me wrong, but do you have any that aren't 20+ years old?(I have had some old Homelites and macs that i would mill with anyday.......but wouldn't spend my time looking for major parts for them).

Get the mill off the trailer and on some bunks, rig up a remote throttle and get a good running saw on it, the "cautiously optimistic" will become the official Merrickville custom Sawyer!

Jeremy