Specific sharpening question

for 3 years now ive been sharpening my own chains and have never really been able to get them razor sharp...so my question is do you guys rest your file guide on the rake or the back of the cutting tooth? The other day i accidently did one how i thought was improperly(resting on back of cutting tooth) and it ended up being sharper the normal

thanks

cody

The back of the cutting tooth. How else are you going to maintain uniformity in the teeth on your chain? The rakers should get lowered as the chain gets sharpened more and more but the back of the tooth remains constant. It also will allow you to pull the file up into the tooth with more consistant pressure and give you that razor sharp top plate.

wups....someones feeling dumb...aka me

yetty734 said:

wups....someones feeling dumb...aka me

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Why ? I've seen some pretty badly botched chain sharpening by hand filers. When you find a better way, go with what works. Experience is a good teacher.

yetty734 said:

wups....someones feeling dumb...aka me

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Don't feel dumb. That's why you're here asking good questions. I read alot on here before I taught myself to file a chain. Now I can get better results than my buddy with a grinder. It is definately trial and error.

thanx aandabooks, i didn't realize you had to file the rakers down as well i have some work to do tonite when i get home i have about 15 chains that are razor sharp that only cut so so they cut str8 but dont fly the chips like a new one does, how much do you take off?

The rakers should be .025-.030 below the level of the front of the cutting tooth. Oregon makes a gauge for this. I see your in Canada so I'm not sure about your ability to order from Bailey's. They carry a couple different ones.

If you don't lower your rakers, the chain is just gliding along on the raker tips. Lately I've gotten lazy and instead of using the flat file I have just been taking the chain to the bench grinder and knocking the rakers down that way.

thanx, a great help

Cody, i would ditch the safety chain. Try a full comp, or a semi-skip. When i got my Woodbug mill i actually read the manual. Their sharpening technique was new to me so i tried it. Seems to cut better & stay sharp longer. You can read pages of sharpening techniques if you do a search, but this is how i do it:
Set the saw on the ground or get a stump vise($10 Northern tool) with the bar facing you. I wear a glove on my left hand to hold cutter down, file in the right & i file from the outside(cutting edge) of the tooth to the inside. It's easier to see your angle from the front, and the file pushes against the thin hard chrome coating on the cutter instead of breaking it off by filing it away. The chrome is the most important part of a sharp cutter. If you have a really big magnifying glass you can definatly see what i am talkign about regarding the chrome. Filing inside-out leaves a bur that breaks off leaving a divit of un-sharpened edge.
Most grinders sharpen the cutter the wrong way too, unless they have a reversable motor.
Give a try, ya got nothing to loose but time.........

+1 on the grinder for the rakers(i'm lazy too), but be carefull not to take too much off, or you will dull the chain alot faster.


RD

MotorSeven said:

+1 on the grinder for the rakers(i'm lazy too), but be carefull not to take too much off, or you will dull the chain alot faster.


RD

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+1 if you take off too much, the chain will get grabby and bog easier. I use my grinder and hit the rakers every 3rd sharpening or so. I set it up at zero head angle and just touch the raker (adjust the thumb screw so it just touches at bottom of the stroke). Then zip through.

There is no reason for a filed chain to be slower than new, as a matter of fact some will be faster once correctly filed. The flat plate guide you are using is designed to have the front resting on the rakers. I use them now since I cannot see as well as I used to. Having watched many people try to file chains over the years the most common problems would seem to be.
1. The saw must be held still, no way to correctly file when the saw is rolling around. Easy way in the shop is to mount the rig in a big bench vise. In the field you can use a stump vise or better way is to bore cut into a large log or stump far enough to hold the saw. Lap filing is OK for experts but not for those learning.
2. Files, run your thumb against the file (towards the handle) if it doesnt grab the skin pitch it. Another way to check them is just to look at them in good light. If they look shiney at the tips of the teeth they are junk. If this confuses get a new one and check it against your old one. Junk files equates to junk work.
3. Do not drag the file back, lift out of the tooth and back up. Dragging the file will dull it quickly.
4. The point of the teeth should be away from you and you should file towards the point. Get in a comfortable position to do all the lefts then do same and do all the rights, dont try to alternate.
5. Rakers should be filed to gauge available at most places that sell saws/chains. .025 is best most of the time. I would not suggest random raker lowering fr the inexperianced, use a gauge. As a rule rakers usualy do not need to be fooled with until 1/3 of the cutter is gone.
do not wait for chains to be "dull" before filing. A few strokes each tank of fuel is easier on you and the saw.

I haven't gotten the knack for filing in the field yet. I've tried it a couple of times but I seem to get my best results when I just use my setup in the garage. I was going to get a stump vice from Baileys with my last order but i forgot before checking out. I don't want to pay shipping on just a stump vice. Next order if I can remember.

What I do with the rakers is check to see how much needs to be taken off using my gauge. Then I do a couple on the bench grinder and check them. If I've got a feel for it, I go ahead with the rest of the chain.

A Dremel works well for grinding the rakers.

Butch(OH) said:

There is no reason for a filed chain to be slower than new, as a matter of fact some will be faster once correctly filed. The flat plate guide you are using is designed to have the front resting on the rakers... A few strokes each tank of fuel is easier on you and the saw.

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:agree2:

Lots of good advice there.

danrclem said:

A Dremel works well for grinding the rakers.

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I agree, I had one chain that seemed to have super hard drags (depth gauges) or my flat files were no good, I can't remember. Anyway I clamped the saw bar in the vise, sat on a stool so eye level with the drags, sat the gauge on the drag and nipped the drag down with the dremel in no time. I then moved the gauge over to the next drag, eased the front edge of the last drag to a slight radius (helps minimize chain vibration) and moved on.

You can have the hottest saw around, if the chains not sharpened properly it is not cuttin it doesn't much matter.

See these links:

http://www.oregonchain.com/tech/ms_manual/ms_07.pdf

http://www.oregonchain.com/tech/ms_manual/ms_10.pdf

alright...confusion. one person says raker and one person says back of cutting tooth...which is it. im using a stihl file and guide. how often should u have to replace a stihl cutting file?

I use a Oregon file guide and the rest is on the back of the tooth. It will run on the raker. If you don't keep the rakers at the right depth, then the file will be riding low. Like I said in my first post, the back of the tooth is the only constant in the equation.

I don't know about Stihl files but WoodlandPro are good for 3-5 full sharpenings.

hmm. if mine are still working after atleast 20 sharpenings are the really still working? i didnt realize that they didnt just keep cleaning themselves:jawdrop:

Try as I might I can only seem to finish off one chain before replacing the file. A couple of new loops and a couple of files. When a file starts losing its bite I loosen it and turn it a few degrees so it is back on new teeth again. I haven't tried using the back of the cutter since I have decent results off the raker.

I will have to try it differently and see if it improves anything for me. I'm up for change if it includes improvement.

yetty734 said:

hmm. if mine are still working after atleast 20 sharpenings are the really still working? i didnt realize that they didnt just keep cleaning themselves:jawdrop:

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Do a couple teeth with the old file and then try the new file- you'll notice it cuts more and easier or smoother.