Sharpening Questions

[Philbert]

The rotary / Dremel type tools can work, but they are not my favorite. As a machinist, I think you will agree.

Based on your description of need, my Rx would be a small, less expensive (but not cr*p) grinder to remove damage / re-shape cutters, and use your file for basic sharpening, without taunting Carpal Tunnel Syndrome.

This Forester grinder *if you upgrade the wheels* can be found around $70(?) + $10(?) for the wheels. I have found them on sale for $60 total.



Small. Quiet. Portable. Mount on a piece of plywood and clamp to a table. Sell it for half price if you upgrade ro a full sized grinder, later.

Philbert

 

[Seachaser]

The quickest and easiest jig for me is the Pferd 2 in 1. It files the cutters and the depth guages at the same time. Your 445 should be .325 chain and use 3/16 files. Your 170 I'm guessing is 3/8 lp chain and uses a 5/32 file.

This. Easiest to use and get right.

 

[chainbrake]

I second the 2in1, learn how to hand file cause when your in the field there ain't no plug for a grinder. As far as other jigs I dunno. Get ya 2-3 extra chains too. My 170 takes 3/8p chains so 5/32" files the trick.

I have extra chains, and i know how to file. I can make a saw cut wood like butter. I have arthritis in my right thumb and vibration-caused white finger in both hands. I want something easier to use for sharpening than forcing my thumbs to do work that is no longer easy for them.

I have 4 chains for my 400 - 2 are new, one is has 1/4 of it's life and the other is about half gone.

I asked a simple couple of questions about experience with diamond drill bits. I'm nearly 70 years old and have been sharpening chains for 45 years. I don't need any lectures about what I need to be doing in the bush. It takes some time and energy to correctly hand file a saw that has hit rock. Even if you only damage half the teeth on one side, you have to file them all down.

Often, I use a flat file to take the bulk of badly rocked chains down to undamaged metal, then I go at them with a 7/32 file. Depending on the wood I'm cutting, I file 25-30 degrees with 25-30 thousandths clearance for my rakers. I have micrometers and and calipers to measure my sharpening when I want to really make a saw sing smooth - like if I am getting into something really hard like old apple or black locust. If I am ripping, I file at 10-15 degrees - depending on the wood, how knotty it is etc.

 

[chainbrake]

The rotary / Dremel type tools can work, but they are not my favorite. As a machinist, I think you will agree.

Based on your description of need, my Rx would be a small, less expensive (but not cr*p) grinder to remove damage / re-shape cutters, and use your file for basic sharpening, without taunting Carpal Tunnel Syndrome.

This Forester grinder *if you upgrade the wheels* can be found around $70(?) + $10(?) for the wheels. I have found them on sale for $60 total.
View attachment 1177310

View attachment 1177311
Small. Quiet. Portable. Mount on a piece of plywood and clamp to a table. Sell it for half price if you upgrade ro a full sized grinder, later.

Philbert

Thank you. I may take you up on this.

 

[J D]

I agree with @Philbert... those grinders can be found under many brand names & are a good basic starting point. I have one & have shimmed the hinge to reduce play & modified the angle of the clamp to get a little more "hook" for milling. Only issue it ever had was the thread on the clamp stripping.
@chainbrake, I think several of the latest comments were directed more towards the OP. I get where you're coming from with the rotary bits & they do work but they're definitely not dor everyone. You need to get the right size bits just like a hand file, the cheap ones won't last, & if you need to remove any amount of material (like with a rocked chain) you will want both more & less agressive bits. The nice thing about using the rotary bits on a drill is you can reverse it for each side of the chain. The weight of the drill can make it hard not to drop too far into the gullet so thats something to be concious of too

 

[NSEric]

I have sharpening questions after the story.

I have rocked 3 chains in 5 days!
*One of them was from a piece of rock that grew into a tree at the stump. The tree was 80 years old, and had been on what was once farmland/pastureland and a maple syrup grove. I'll never know how that piece of granite got into that tree.

*Two of chains that became dull were definitely my fault. I'm switching back and forth, using 16" and 20" bars in 3 different saws, and I have not been paying close enough attention to my tip when bucking and limbing on rough terrain. Both times it has happened after switching from the small slower saw I use for limbing to the bigger 400 that I have been using for felling, bucking and sometimes limbing (when the 170 is out of fuel and I don't want to fuel it up again for the day - getting little dull- whatever). The 400 with a 20" bar is an aggressive saw, and it is still a little new for me. It almost always surprises me as to how fast it goes through some logs/branches. I love using it as much as I can love anything that rips through beautiful forest habitat.

So, I sharpened 1/8th inch off of one chain - wearing through 1.5 files and causing arthritis to swell up in my thumb for 3 days. I hit the second rock (the one in the tree) and just switched out to my backup chain. Yesterday, I hit the 3rd rock and I am getting tired of filing!

Now the questions:
Does anyone use the diamond studded 7/32 bits that I see online for sharpeners/Dremels?
Does anyone use them in a drill?
If anyone is using them with good results, I would like to know what brand to buy so that I get good value for my dollar. I have an Amazon account.

I was a machinist before I became a carpenter/builder/firewood guy. I am very good at cutting wood and metal, holding drills true and straight. I admit that I have a drill acquisition disorder similar to how many people ArboristSite have C.A.D. If other people are using drills with good results, I am sure that I can do it too. I can had file a saw so that it cuts really nicely.

I don't want to get a saw sharpener (like the Oregon type - or whatever), because I don't have room for it till I complete setting up my new shop. I won't do that till I finish building a couple of houses that i am just starting on... and there is always next year's firewood to get.

Thanks for your help.

The 7/32 oregon bits are worth the couple extra bucks over the diamond ones, they're way faster and last longer.
You could use them in a drill, it'll just be a little slower, I already had a dremel so I use it.
Canadian tire and princess auto have these bits just as cheap as amazon if you're near one.
I have hand issues as well so I use the dremel or the chain grinder more than files now.
Edited to add If you use a dremel or drill with a dremel bit to sharpen the saw, do both sides of the chain from the chain brake side, this pulls the grinder down into the chain so it doesnt want to jump out of the tooth.

 

[Philbert]

The weight of the drill can make it hard not to drop too far into the gullet so thats something to be concious of too

Good point. Weight / size of drill / Dremel / Granberg / etc., can still an issue, especially, if you have some hand issues.

The grinder just sits on the bench, with no holding / gripping force required.

Philbert

 

[chainbrake]

The 7/32 oregon bits are worth the couple extra bucks over the diamond ones, they're way faster and last longer.
You could use them in a drill, it'll just be a little slower, I already had a dremel so I use it.
Canadian tire and princess auto have these bits just as cheap as amazon if you're near one.
I have hand issues as well so I use the dremel or the chain grinder more than files now.
Edited to add If you use a dremel or drill with a dremel bit to sharpen the saw, do both sides of the chain from the chain brake side, this pulls the grinder down into the chain so it doesnt want to jump out of the tooth.

Thanks for the good tips/feedback/advice. This is the sort of info I am after.

With my battery-operated Makita and DeWalt drills, I can run at any speed in the bush or at my shop. Ether way, I usually sharpen my chains on the back of my truck so I don't take all of the oil and fuel into my woodworking space. I have compressor hoses that I use outside to blow the saws and bars clean. If I'm going to have a big day in the bush, I might throw my portable compressor in the back, all aired-up just so I can clean the saws up if I need to work on one in the field. It's nice for keeping the chips out of the oil and fuel.

 

[chainbrake]

Good point. Weight / size of drill / Dremel / Granberg / etc., can still an issue, especially, if you have some hand issues.

The grinder just sits on the bench, with no holding / gripping force required.

Philbert

Thanks Philbert, I can probably hold it steady bracing my elbow against myself. I am getting more sold on a grinder, the more i read, but, I wouldn't mind trying a couple of Oregon bits like Eric spoke about.

 

[J D]

Something like this may be worth considering, although all the ones I've seen look to be a bit cheap & flimsy

 

[Philbert]

There are some battery powered chain grinders, for field use. I have not seen, or used, any, so can’t really comment on them.

The Forester and Oregon 310 (identical?) are rated at 85 watts, so could be run off an inverter. Some of the newer pick up trucks have these as standard (low power inverters; not chain grinders).

https://www.arboristsite.com/threads/forester-04844-chain-grinder.347765/

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Philbert

 

[chainbrake]

This. Easiest to use and get right.

I have a 400, not a 445. I use a 3/8 chisel tooth Stihl chain with it. I can use the same chain on my 034. I forget what thin chain the 170 uses, but it is a thin stihl chisel tooth chain and it takes a5/32 file like you said. I have back-up chains for all 3 of my saws, backup bars for 2 of them.

It's been some years since i have pinched a saw in a tree in such a way that I've needed to use another saw (or bar) to set it free, but I'm always prepared for doing something stupid - like having the oil quit on one, rocking the other, and pinching the bar on a 3rd. I can always keep at least one saw running, doing work, when I'm out for the day - even if it is just limbing and thinning with the little saw. And if I pack it in early, there is always wood waiting to be split, houses to build.

 

[chainbrake]

There are some battery powered chain grinders, for field use. I have not seen, or used, any, so can’t really comment on them.

The Forester and Oregon 310 (identical?) are rated at 85 watts, so could be run off an inverter. Some of the newer pick up trucks have these as standard (low power inverters; not chain grinders).

https://www.arboristsite.com/threads/forester-04844-chain-grinder.347765/

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Philbert

Great link with great info/commentary by you and others, Thanks, Philbert. I think I'm sold on a "Forester" if I buy a grinder, but I'm going to try a couple of those Oregon Dremel-type files in my drills first.

I don't do a great deal of chainsaw work anymore (I buy about 2 chains a year on years when I am not constantly hitting rocks! ). I have never paid to have a chain sharpened. I had a friend sharpen one of my chains to show me how it cuts when he sharpens them on his grinder. Didn't work any better than what I did with files. But, I have to admit that is would be nice to hog out most of a blunted chain with a grinder - or drill attachment.

 

[Stihlproincky]

Damn that sucks! I missed that in your original post sorry, get ya a couple more chains and try to keep them out of the rocks! I'm in kentucky trust me I know about rocks. Sounds like a grinder best for you.

 

[epo]

The Forester and Oregon 310 (identical?)

It looks identical. The official responsible party/manufacturer/whatever of 310 (230V) is Tecomec. Although they don't have such a grinder in their offer.
310-230 (2 wheels 1/8'', 3/16'', a dressing brick and profile guide) costs about $50 here in Europe without tax.

Of course, there are plenty of identically designed grinders on the market sold under a myriad of brands. The reported motor power and RPM are the same as for Tecomec/Oregon.
They usually come with a single brown wheel (1/8'') and have no other accessories attached. Prices start at $25.

 

[mtndragon]

I do use a dremel with bits for exactly what you're describing-after I rock a chain. It is a workable solution for bringing the chain back to serviceable quicker and easier than just hand filing. I have used both the Oregon and diamond bits. Neither of them last all that long if you have to use it on a bunch of cutters. The bits wear down quickly and take on irregular shape and lose their circumference size. To the point that one good, rocked chain=one bit. I find other uses for them grinding on this and that after they're too irregular to use again on a chain. I hate to even say it, but, luckily it's been a while since I've had to use them, and although I know a couple of people who use the dremel/bit system on the regular to sharpen chains, if you cut often, it would consume a lot of bits. It's not my preferred method, but it's has it's place in a sharpening tool chest, if you don't have a grinder. I don't have a grinder for the same reason you don't=lack of space. I've never tried it with a drill, but I imagine you could find a system that would work for you. As mentioned, you do need to be mindful of the bits tendency to jump out of the cutter, and a drill might actually help with this, as it would give you more to hold onto to control the rotational force. Also, try to keep the bit moving back and forth using the whole bit so that you don't develop pronounced low spots in the center of the bit as it wears. Bad things come in threes, so you should be good on rocking chains for a while now.

 

[Philbert]

Another Dremel vs Drill thought:
my Dremels are 30,000 rpm (variable speed). Typical VSR drill is 3,000 - 4,000 rpm?

I love my Dremel tools. Started picking some up at garage sales, and leaving some set up with different bits / attachments for different uses.

Philbert

 

[maowwg]

Feel free to cast stones but I still use an Oregon file guide and the file called for by the chain manufacturer. I appreciate that it’s a plain vanilla solution, but I get acceptably results and I find it relaxing.

I appreciate that others get better results with either better skill or better equipment, but to me sharpening chains is similar to sweeping a floor or mowing the lawn. If you stay after it, the floor / lawn remains in control. As soon as you finish, the floor starts getting dirty the lawn starts growing or the chain starts getting dull. If you have a huge floor you can buy walk behind scrubbers if you have a

 

[EchoRomeoCharlie]

I've used those Pferd all in one jigs. I've used grinders. I've used file guides.

In the end, I've found that I'm the fastest and most happy just free hand filing with a round file. I get good results and I don't need any of those other tools. Keep a few round files and a flat file and I'm good to go. Simple.

Plus, now that I've had a bunch of time filing, I can adjust my chain geometry to fit the wood I'm cutting. That's when it really gets fun. Trying new things to see what's faster.

 

[epo]

I hope you guys know that diamond abrasives are a big no-no for grinding steel, because iron atoms are the catalyst for the transformation of diamond into graphite, which under their influence occurs at a much lower temperature than normal, which means rapid wear of such grinding tools.

Of course, diamond is required for sharpening Stihl Duro cutters (tungsten carbide), for example.