The 50:1 2 Cycle Oil Myth ? "epa"

Timber_Hitch · Nov 25, 2007

The EPA has new standards that require a below PPM polutants be emitted. The 2 cycle manufacturers barely met the last deadline. The way the manufacturers met this new standard is by thinning out the oil to gas mixture that greatly affects the life of the saw. The " UNOFFICIAL " word from the local Stihl mechanics is to run them rich 25:1 or 30:1 which is what I have been doing and my saws are lasting atleast twice as long between rebuilds. I have no loss on RPM's or power and hardly any smoke increase. So the choice is yours be a good law biding American Citizen and run the 50:1 lubrication starved mixture or run the correct mixture the saw really needs to last a full life. I think this is the last year for 2 cycle motorcycles also, so I am looking for a CR500 Honda. I should have never sold my dirt bike they are buying all the 2 cycles up quick around the northeast. :greenchainsaw: :cheers:

vamtjewboy · Nov 25, 2007

32:1

several old timers told me that 32:1 is optimum...i'm all about environmental protection and even spend the big $ for Biodegradable bar and chain oil, but if a richer mix is going to make my saw last longer, then hey, makes sense to me! i rationalize it like this: the embodied energy wrapped up in the manufacture of the saw itself out weighs the pollution created by mixing one bottle of 2-cycle oil with 1.6 gallons of fuel rather than 2.5 gallons for the 50:1 ratio. am i fooling myself? let's hear from some real die hard environmentalists/conservationists...u folks who clean the peanut butter jar so that it can be recycled or who religiously turn off lights when leaving a room. -nick

thomas72 · Nov 25, 2007

They have not made a Cr500 since 2001. I have a 2002 kx500 and that was hard enough to find. I believe the only motorcycle manufacture left producing the two cycle will be Yamaha. As they will have a 125 and 250. As for the oil, I do not think that is true, I have an outboard motor that I have been running 100-1 in and it has not lost any compression. I ran 32-1 in my kx500 as the factory recommended and that is way to much oil, I will have to cut it down to 40-1 or 50-1.

16:1mix · Nov 25, 2007

vamtjewboy said:
.u folks who clean the peanut butter jar so that it can be recycled -nick

My Springer Spaniel does that for me......wish MY tongue was that long!:jawdrop:

Mad Professor · Nov 25, 2007

There has been 50-40:1 Mixes around since at least the late 60s early 70s.

I was working at a Honda\Suzuki dealership and we sold a lube Made by a coMpany called golden spectro. I've used it in My 2-stroke bikes and saws ever since Mixed at 40-50:1 depending on severity of conditions

My oldest saw, a hoMelite super XL is still running with good coMpression, 40th "birthday" approching .

So no I don't think 40-50:1 is bad for saws, unless you are Mixing it with the new crap gas they are pushing on us, but that is another story........

sawinredneck · Nov 25, 2007

The way his has always been explained:

The older oils were not as good as what we have available nowso you needed more of it to do the job. I have been running synthetics at 50:1 and have had my saws apart several times, they look like new inside. I don't see any need to change a thing I am doing, the pistons are nice and slick, the canks have a nice film on them etc..
Now, if the gas keps going downhill as it has been, and has been mentioned by another poster, I may be forced to change!

ciscoguy01 · Nov 25, 2007

epa

Yeaaaaaa, I just might start feeling bad about my chainsaws running a little rich when I'm using about 2 or 3 gallons a week... Specially when I see all the moms driving their kids around in their 10mpg SUV's and going through 50gallons of gas a week. That doesn't put out any pollution I'm sure... :censored:

:cheers:

Timber_Hitch · Nov 25, 2007

Don't get Brainwashed

"quote" I have an outboard motor that I have been running 100-1 in and it has not lost any compression.

Outboard motors are a totally different animal they can control the CTE with water cooling. But also its the 2 cycle outboards that pollute the waterways so I would be cautious about the lean mixture they tell us to run. I have an old Mercury Mark 20 which is 16hp still running on the original piston that was handed down from grandfather to dad to me and it must have thousands and thousands of hours on it running 32:1. The fact is the more lubrication the less wear. So let it be said, so let it be spoken, so let it be written ! Rameses:
:dizzy:

2dogs · Nov 25, 2007

vamtjewboy said:
several old timers told me that 32:1 is optimum...i'm all about environmental protection and even spend the big $ for Biodegradable bar and chain oil, but if a richer mix is going to make my saw last longer, then hey, makes sense to me! i rationalize it like this: the embodied energy wrapped up in the manufacture of the saw itself out weighs the pollution created by mixing one bottle of 2-cycle oil with 1.6 gallons of fuel rather than 2.5 gallons for the 50:1 ratio. am i fooling myself? let's hear from some real die hard environmentalists/conservationists...u folks who clean the peanut butter jar so that it can be recycled or who religiously turn off lights when leaving a room. -nick

The oldtimers had oldtime oil. You needed to run a rich mix way back when, now there is no need to. I run all my 2 cycles at 50:1 on Opti 2 or sometimes Stihl Ultra. I some jobs when I am workng alone then I run Blenzol. My mechanic likes the way my stuff looks inside so everything seems to work OK. The oldtimers I know didn't wear hearing protection and removed the chain brakes off their saws. Now we are smarter.

I recycle whatever goods I can. Is there a problem with that? Reduce, reuse, recycle. Simple.

Poley4 · Nov 25, 2007

Timber_Hitch said:
The fact is the more lubrication the less wear.

Well that sounds good, but the more oil you burn, the more carbon it produces, which reduces the life of your engine. This piston failure guide can show the results of carbon scoring.

Fish · Nov 25, 2007

Do a search of posts made by "Dagger", he added some interesting
thoughts on oil mix ratios.

brian660 · Nov 25, 2007

i`ll second the golden spectro, I run it in my quads my bikes my old 2 stroke sled and my saws.

Tree Sling'r · Nov 25, 2007

Poley4 said:
Well that sounds good, but the more oil you burn, the more carbon it produces, which reduces the life of your engine. This piston failure guide can show the results of carbon scoring.

Could not of said it better.

Lakeside53 · Nov 25, 2007

50:1 has nothing to do with the EPA - it's better oils. Stihl was 50:1 many years before the EPA even looked at OPE.

Stihl's testing shows more oil is not necessarily good - more carbon, particularly behind the rings. Not all engines will do this - it depends on how they are used, but as a general rule "normal use" engine life is extended at 50:1 over 30:1 (example).

Kneejerk Bombas · Nov 25, 2007

Why is oil mix such a popular topic?

davefr · Nov 25, 2007

I still have some of this out in the barn. Don't have the heart to toss it:

sawinredneck · Nov 25, 2007

Mike Maas said:
Why is oil mix such a popular topic?

'cause everybody is an expert!!!!

Tzed250 · Nov 25, 2007

Mike Maas said:
Why is oil mix such a popular topic?

AS members love to :deadhorse:

sawinredneck · Nov 25, 2007

Tzed250 said:
AS members love to :deadhorse:

That to!

Kogafortwo · Nov 25, 2007

16:1mix said:
My Springer Spaniel does that for me......wish MY tongue was that long!:jawdrop:

If MY tongue was that long I would have been a lot more popular with the ladies back in the day...

The 50:1 2 Cycle Oil Myth ? "epa"

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