Felling an Ash with a "Y" - pic inside...

DPDISXR4Ti · Oct 21, 2008

I've got an Ash I've gradually been felling since it's too close to the house. The section I've got to do next is the portion with the most risk, as it's the tallest and some of the branches hang over the house. To work the odds in my favor, I've already cut the two largest branches off that hung over the house. I got those down without touching the house, but I don't want to get over-confident just because I was successful there.

The pic below was taken from about a 90-degree angle of where I want to drop the tree to the left. You can see I've already got the pull-rope up in the tree (and no, I can't get it any higher). About 12 feet up you'll see the trunk turns to the left - there was a "Y" there - I've already dropped the other leg off to the right.

My basic question is this... Would you cut at the apex of the "Y" 12 feet up, or at the base? It comes down to whether the additional leverage is worth more than the extra weight at the base which is biased a little to the right (180 degrees from the fall line).

I should add that I'm reasonably versed on safety measures when cutting from a ladder - fasten the ladder to the tree, and harness myself to tree. I won't however profess that I'm terribly experienced at it. I'm thinking my 14" electric saw might be preferable to the 353, just based on weight.

DPDISXR4Ti · Oct 26, 2008

Y'all afraid to help me kill myself here?:greenchainsaw:

lh3 · Oct 26, 2008

If you are not 100% confident that you can remove the tree safely, properly without damaging anything, call a professional with insurance. This tree is obviously not a big priority or it wouldve already been down.

BCMA · Oct 26, 2008

1. Are you wanting to fell the entire tree?
2. Do you have the room without causing damage?
3. I see this post is several days old, is the tree still standing?

DPDISXR4Ti · Oct 26, 2008

BCMA said:
1. Are you wanting to fell the entire tree?
2. Do you have the room without causing damage?
3. I see this post is several days old, is the tree still standing?

1) Ultimately, yes, the whole thing will come down. The other half of the tree (somewhat of a mirror image, with it's own "Y"), is shorter and more favorably angled so won't present any challanges. It doesn't conflict with the fall line of the forward trunk we're discussing here.

2) I've got about 100 degrees of fall angle to the left where I can safely drop it. There's one bush in that drop zone that I'd try to avoid, but it's relatively inconsequential if it gets whacked. The house in the right foreground is the only element of concern. Frankly, if there was any significant level of concern, I'd bring someone in. Because it is a house (my house), I'm just taking every manner of precaution, that's all.

3) Yes, the tree is standing just as you see it in the pic. I've been away and had zero time to do anything with this over the last two weeks.

Nailsbeats · Oct 26, 2008

Get up on your ladder and cut the limb that is interfering with the roped lead. Then get down and drop that lead. Put the rope in the second lead and then drop him. 2 separate drops no problem.

When cutting the limb off the ladder, tie in and put a rope through a crotch above you, then tie to the butt of the limb so it can be lowered down. Cut slowly from the top and let the limb "hinge" down slowly as you cut it off, this will keep it safely under control. Just watch as to not cut the rope as it all moves.

Wear safety gear like a hardhat that won't come off, ear protection, safety glasses, chaps, and good gloves. You might thank me later.

Edit: looks like the limb in question may go behind the roped lead? If this is the case, just get up there and whack it off anyhow so it narrows up the tree for the second fall. You may not even need a rope, just be tied in when you do it.

DPDISXR4Ti · Oct 26, 2008

Nailsbeats said:
Get up on your ladder and cut the limb that is interfering with the roped lead. Then get down and drop that lead. Put the rope in the second lead and then drop him. 2 separate drops no problem.

Edit: looks like the limb in question may go behind the roped lead?

I think the pic is playing tricks on you. There's nothing conflicting with the pull rope at all. No branches of any significance from the back trunk will interfere as the forward trunk falls to the left.

Appreciate the safety reminders. The nephew of a friend was an arborist and recently lost his life when one of his workers dropped a branch on him. That's probably got something to do with why I'm over-analyzing this.

Nailsbeats · Oct 26, 2008

DPDISXR4Ti said:
I think the pic is playing tricks on you. There's nothing conflicting with the pull rope at all. No branches of any significance from the back trunk will interfere as the forward trunk falls to the left.

Appreciate the safety reminders. The nephew of a friend was an arborist and recently lost his life when one of his workers dropped a branch on him. That's probably got something to do with why I'm over-analyzing this.

I am talking about the limb 1/3 up on the left lead, take him out before you drop him as you will already be there to hang the rope. If you don't he may play tricks on your drop zone.

BCMA · Oct 26, 2008

*WARNING*

I would highly suggest you do not work off of a ladder! This is very dangerous. Don’t do it!

Next question- is there a seam or split in the tree below the fork. Can you post some pictures of the trunk at various angles to show us the trunk. You may be able to drop the entire tree with out removing it in sections. If you have a seam with included bark in the trunk, ½ of the tree may split out.

Nailsbeats · Oct 26, 2008

BCMA said:
*WARNING*

I would highly suggest you do not work off of a ladder! This is very dangerous. Don’t do it!

Next question- is there a seam or split in the tree below the fork. Can you post some pictures of the trunk at various angles to show us the trunk. You may be able to drop the entire tree with out removing it in sections. If you have a seam with included bark in the trunk, ½ of the tree may split out.

What is dangerous about working tied into the tree at the top of a ladder tied into the tree? If you read the whole post this is what he said he was doing, nothing dangerous about it. That's why I suggested hinging the limb down with a rope, slow and controlled, no ladder wiping out. Other than that all he was doing was hanging ropes. That's like telling a carpenter, don't work off a ladder, you'll die.

Nailsbeats · Oct 26, 2008

DP, my only other advise to you is watch the wind, do it on a still day or when the wind is in your favor, also know your notches and how to aim them, with the ropes set and the wind working for you, that's what it all comes down to. Cut enough to pull and give that hinge time to work.

DPDISXR4Ti · Oct 26, 2008

TreeCo said:
Nails I believe the original poster was talking about cutting the whole tree from a ladder at 12 feet off of the ground.

Well, that sorta depends on what you call the "whole tree", as this thing is "Y'd" near the base, so it's pretty much impossible to cut the "whole tree" at once! But yes, my plan was to cut the main trunk (the one towards the right in the pic above), either at the base, or about 12 feet up.

Here's another pic I took today from a different perspective, right from the landing zone. The rope is angled off to the left of the landing zone a bit, just temporarily tied off a tree to keep it off the ground. You can see here that the other leg of the same tree won't interfere in any meaningful way as the other one falls.

cmetalbend · Oct 26, 2008

There's alot of ways to bring that down, some safer than others, but I would not do it from a ladder. Either on the ground or a harness. Personaly, I'd tie the rope to a truck if you have room to pull. Notch it in the general direction you want to go. Proceed with the backcut all the while somone applies the correct amount of pressure on the rope. Once she starts to break it's up to the driver. Oh I found those little 2way radios come in handy for this situation, also.

DPDISXR4Ti · Oct 26, 2008

Nailsbeats said:
DP, my only other advise to you is watch the wind, do it on a still day or when the wind is in your favor, also know your notches and how to aim them, with the ropes set and the wind working for you, that's what it all comes down to. Cut enough to pull and give that hinge time to work.

Yep, even though the prevailing wind would help push the tree in the desired fall line, I'll wait for a still day. Using the pic I just posted above, I'll notch towards the inside edge of the large tree in the left foreground (the one the rope's tied off now), and use that as a guide for my pull rope (pull rope just barely grazing that tree when taut). It should drop ~10 degrees to the right of that (about where I took the picture from).

DPDISXR4Ti · Oct 26, 2008

cmetalbend said:
Proceed with the backcut all the while somone applies the correct amount of pressure on the rope.

Ideally, I don't want to be cutting when it starts falling. I'd figure to tie it off snug to my truck as a safety, and then have my helpers yank on it when I pause from cutting. I'd much prefer to wedge it over, but it's probably not a big enough trunk to be in there with the saw and still have room behind it for the wedge. Hmmm, maybe I would have enough diameter to wedge it if I cut it at the base rather than 12 feet up (ah yes, back to the initial question).

DPDISXR4Ti · Oct 26, 2008

TreeCo said:
Brad please proceed with caution. I'm seeing lots of red flags in your postings about this tree removal. Even a minor injury is not acceptable!

I'll expand that to say that neither injury nor property damage is acceptable. Feel free to point out any of the red flags you see. Injuries to my pride are entirely acceptable; encouraged even.

GLOBOTREE · Oct 26, 2008

Be careful Brad

Good day from the great white north!. Look at the tree as a ladder! If I were you I would eliminate the Fear Factor here and climb it with a hand saw and defeat your fear! The hazard is there by the looks of the picture you took from a different angle. Once you climb the ladder, tie off to the tree and ascend it normally until you reach a good place to stand. Ash are fun to cut, and easy to handle. There are no leaves on it, so the wind will hardly blow it. Just cut it down piece by piece. You will experience a true feeling of victory against a tree that is scaring you, trust me I know. Your biggest fear is defeatable by just going through the motions of cutting down one step at a time. I am sorry to say that tieing it off to a truck is not recommended at all. This practice should be internationally outlawed in the Urban Tree Scene, it sucks, anything could go wrong and I have seen the worst happen before my eyes and it is not nice, because of someones wise idea to tie it off to a truck, Don't do it. It is not worth the risk. One piece at a time, slow and steady. Heck I would come and do it for ya! But I have no idea where you are, but then again I wood want the wood in exchange. Get r' done keep me posted! Oh and dont use an electric saw MAN thats insane!

oldirty · Oct 26, 2008

DPDISXR4Ti said:
I'll expand that to say that neither injury nor property damage is acceptable. Feel free to point out any of the red flags you see. Injuries to my pride are entirely acceptable; encouraged even.

stay off the ladder. there is no place in tree work for a ladder unless you are pruning an ornamental or a hedge.

you want to see what cutting off a ladder is like go to youtube and look for "how NOT to cut a tree"

if that doesnt keep you off a ladder nothing will.

GLOBOTREE · Oct 26, 2008

Use ladder to get up is OK

I agree that ladders dont go with Tree work, but give the guy a break here, he is not PRO. Olddirty I totally agree, but if he needs it to get up and climb the tree then use it, piece her down, u wont hurt the silly ladder with little branches, but I have dented a few ladders with branches. I find the ladder saves energy, precious energy!

opcorn:

oldirty · Oct 26, 2008

how is he going to piece down this ash with a 12ft ladder?

whenever i see anyone using any ladder but an orchard ladder in tree work, the only thing that comes to mind is......hackah!!!!!!

let the painters and roofers use the ladders.

Felling an Ash with a "Y" - pic inside...

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